Thoughts

Non-tube amp discussion to discuss music, girls, life, etc.

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nickt
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Last thought...

Post by nickt »

Time for nickt to "lighten up" I think. :wink:

Happy New Year! everyone in the oppressed masses! :D :D
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dartanion
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Re: Thoughts

Post by dartanion »

nickt wrote:
dartanion wrote:Work smarter, not harder!!!

Yeah, right. Expect everyone to work overtime as you do the work of 4 people. No extra pay though. Exempt employees don't get overtime.

CEO pay up 400%
Average working stiff is losing ground every year.

Seems fair right?
Hey Dart - you said you work in a BIG bank, well so do I. With the sub-prime crisis they immediately started talking layoffs :shock: but magically two months later they reveal yet another record profit - do these eegits have any idea what they're doing? :?

Had a thought recently - over the last 500 years politically we've gone from a rabble of landed gentry, to absolute monarchs, to revolutions, to democracy (possibly to rolling back democracy :roll: ). Seems we're still at the absolute monarch stage WRT multi-national corporations :wink:
Actually it was Mark Huss who works in a huge bank.

I own my own IT consulting firm, but work exclusively with pharma, biotech, and medical device companies huge and tiny. I've seen it all. I am usually brought in in to clean up messes created by incompetent management. I am not complaining at all as I am doing pretty well, however my revenues are down over 50% since 2003. The amount of work hasn't decreased, demand is still very high. The numbers of potential clients has increased. The problem is that clients won't pay a decent wage for experienced consultants anymore. Everything is done on the cheap these days.
Eardrums!!! We don't need no stinkin' eardrums!
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nickt
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Re: Thoughts

Post by nickt »

dartanion wrote:
Actually it was Mark Huss who works in a huge bank.
Opps... sorry about that... :oops:
I own my own IT consulting firm, but work exclusively with pharma, biotech, and medical device companies huge and tiny. I've seen it all. I am usually brought in in to clean up messes created by incompetent management. I am not complaining at all as I am doing pretty well, however my revenues are down over 50% since 2003. The amount of work hasn't decreased, demand is still very high. The numbers of potential clients has increased. The problem is that clients won't pay a decent wage for experienced consultants anymore. Everything is done on the cheap these days.
But there *is* a parallel :wink: I'm in IT development and used to work in scientific/medical instrumentation back in the 80's. :roll: 8)

Agree - when they say "skills shortage" they really mean "cheap skills shortage" - funny how my relatives in construction never have this issue! Why didn't I choose Plumbing instead of Computer Science? :? :wink:
Tubetwang
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Re: Thoughts

Post by Tubetwang »

Disconnnect the battery in your new car.

You will need to go to the Dealer for a radio reboot.

No... your car shop mechanic can't do it.

He too, needs to send it to the dealer, because, he does'nt have the tools or the knowhow. It's a kept secret.

Now... that is progress...

Why do i drive an E-Bike?
CaseyJones
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Re: Thoughts

Post by CaseyJones »

Tubetwang wrote:Disconnnect the battery in your new car.

You will need to go to the Dealer for a radio reboot.

No... your car shop mechanic can't do it.

He too, needs to send it to the dealer, because, he does'nt have the tools or the knowhow. It's a kept secret.

Now... that is progress...

Why do i drive an E-Bike?
Part of the problem is that we continue to see legislative solutions to engineering problems. That's not entirely a problem, without EPA and DOT standards we wouldn't see fleet mileage and air quality improvments. The problem is that we're also saddled with unnecessary levels of complexity to satisfy increasingly onerous laws.

Examples: Firestone sold price point tires to Ford, Ford used the price point tires on Ford SUVs. According to both Ford and Firestone there was nothing at all wrong with the tires. I can buy that because tire technology has advanced by leaps and bounds over the last couple decades. The problem they say is that no one checks their tire pressures. I can buy that, too. There used to be a FREE air hose at every service station. Service stations used to have attendants. A service station attendant would tell you if you had a low tire. I point out underinflated tires to people all the time. Put some air in it before it peels off the rim. Remember we're dealing with idiots so there needs to be an idiot proof solution. The ultimate solution is not to be an idiot. Just look at your tires before you get into the car. The government mandated solution is to require tire pressure monitoring systems in SUVs, it's another unnecessary level of complexity and expense.

Next example, air bags. They'll save your bacon in a crash. Well, that's idiot proof. The bad news: We're saddled with another level of complexity and expense. Two air bags are good. Are seven air bags better? The insurance companies love air bags, if the air bag deploys the car is an instant total. Write it off, sell it as a rebuildable, a body shop will replace the bent panels and install a fresh air bag module. There's an entire industy of auto rebuilders and recyclers. The real idiot proof solution: Don't be an idiot! Don't drive like an idiot and I'll be less likely to run into you. I don't drive like an idiot so I'm reasonably certain you won't run into me.

My solution: I can shave off a ton of ugly weight and avoid a ridiculous level of complexity by installing modern engines in vintage automobiles. If I was a manufacturer this wouldn't be possible, I'd have to meet current regulations. 25 years ago I would have gone for brute power, these days I'm building for maximum fuel mileage and very pleasant driveability. I start for instance with a powerplant that will get 40 m.p.g. in a 3000 pound car. I'm guaranteed at least 40 m.p.g. and brisk performance when I swap that powerplant into say a 1600 pound roadster. I don't quite lose a ton of ugly weight but you get the point. Even though I'm a tech the consumer electronic doo-dads don't make it into the roadster. My living room is a better listening enviroment for music. I don't need a phone to detract from my motoring experience. With endurance racer seats, full race harnesses and a roll cage I'm fairly certain I'm safer than you are.

Return to forwards thinking: ALL of the U.S. auto manufacturers are selling designs that were on the drawing board back when gas was under $2.00 per gallon. Yippee yahoo, we're re-visiting to the late '60s! We have muscle cars again. Look at the Mustang. It looks a whole lot like my '70 Fastback. It's bigger and heavier than it's been since 1974. Look at all the mid-sized trucks. They all got BIGGER. Is a 12 m.p.g. SUV what we need right now? I don't think so.

We're here to build hot-rod amplifiers. It's not a big stretch to build hot rod automobiles. If you don't have the fabrication chops to do what I do at least make better choices when you can.
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dartanion
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Re: Thoughts

Post by dartanion »

No we don't NEED huge SUVs that get horrible mileage, but the auto companies and oil companies certainly want us to buy them.

The car stereo thing with disconnecting the battery is simple. Most new cars have anti-theft devices built into the unit. There is a reset code in your owners manual which will activate the stereo again. Takes about 2 minutes to figure out.

The funny thing about this, where do most people keep their owners manual for their car? In the glove box. Thief steals locked stereo and manual from glove box. It's like the quote I read somewhere from an actual car thief about "the Club" stearing wheel lock...I think he said "They're great! It gives you something to hit the owner with if they catch you in the act!"
Eardrums!!! We don't need no stinkin' eardrums!
CaseyJones
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Re: Thoughts

Post by CaseyJones »

dartanion wrote:No we don't NEED huge SUVs that get horrible mileage, but the auto companies and oil companies certainly want us to buy them.
It's the "bigger is better" thing that's the sick part of our culture. Let's bring this back to amps... there are still guys who think they can't play unless they have a 100 watt stack or something like a Mode 4. That's great, run the thing with the volume barely cracked then buy guitar after guitar and pedal after pedal trying to to get "the tone".

My favorite setup lately is a 5 watt output section with a bad-ass preamp. With 5 watts I have it all, preamp distortion, power amp distortion, feedback, sustain. Problem is trying to sell a setup like that to musicians who want to show up for a gig in a stretch Hummer, small amps are supposed to be inexpensive. I save a couple bucks on transformers but I still need transformers, I save a couple bucks on tubes. It still takes me all day to wire one up just like it does with a big amp. No I'm not talking about everyone's favorite shitbox small amp, I wouldn't touch one of those with a sharpened stick!
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Ears
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Re: Thoughts

Post by Ears »

CaseyJones wrote:
dartanion wrote:No we don't NEED huge SUVs that get horrible mileage, but the auto companies and oil companies certainly want us to buy them.
It's the "bigger is better" thing that's the sick part of our culture. Let's bring this back to amps... there are still guys who think they can't play unless they have a 100 watt stack or something like a Mode 4. That's great, run the thing with the volume barely cracked then buy guitar after guitar and pedal after pedal trying to to get "the tone".
I reckon every working [rock/electric] musician knows that 5W to 15W is hopelessly inadequate unless bucks are invested in big PA to re-amplify. You can have all the tone you want but it must be heard. No good living in 15W tone heaven if you need 70W or 102dB spl clean for disco chops to be heard in theschool gym. ;-)

Fully agree on the cars, it's not a recent trend though, it goes back a long way back to cars produced in US in 50's and 60's heydays. European mass production cars generally tended to be smaller, but not always.
CaseyJones
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Re: Thoughts

Post by CaseyJones »

Ears wrote:
CaseyJones wrote:It's the "bigger is better" thing that's the sick part of our culture. Let's bring this back to amps... there are still guys who think they can't play unless they have a 100 watt stack or something like a Mode 4. That's great, run the thing with the volume barely cracked then buy guitar after guitar and pedal after pedal trying to to get "the tone".
I reckon every working [rock/electric] musician knows that 5W to 15W is hopelessly inadequate unless bucks are invested in big PA to re-amplify. You can have all the tone you want but it must be heard. No good living in 15W tone heaven if you need 70W or 102dB spl clean for disco chops to be heard in the school gym. ;-)
There you go, "to be heard in the school gym" with a crappy P.A..

Playing clubs in the U.S. has changed in the last 20 years or so. In my area is used to be necessary for every band to have its own P.A. system in order to get work. We had a killer system. Many bands would have been all set just with our monitor system, leave the mains in the truck.

Any club with credibility now has its own system. I can show up with a Princeton, mic it to the mains and fold just a little bit back through the monitors. I really hate it when everyone on stage has at least 100 watts, everyone turns it up, the club owner keeps hassling the soundman to turn it down. A lousy mix and a pissed off club owner means you won't be back there again.

102db spl is EASY with under 5 watts. We've pushed well in excess of 120db spl from the mains on the dance floor.

High sound pressure levels onstage makes deaf musicians. When you're deaf you're not a musician anymore.
mlp-mx6
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Re: Thoughts

Post by mlp-mx6 »

CaseyJones wrote:When you're deaf you're not a musician anymore.
Don't tell Beethoven! :wink:
Wife: How many amps do you need?
Me: Just one more...
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Structo
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Re: Thoughts

Post by Structo »

High sound pressure levels onstage makes deaf musicians. When you're deaf you're not a musician anymore.
Not to mention it muddies up the FOH mix.

I think a lot of us have doubled as sound men.
The one thing (among others) that I have noticed over the years, is if the stage mix is too complex or loud, it can really effect the sound quality of the mains, projecting a good clean sound into the room.
And depending on your back drop that can reflect your stage mix out front.
Of course there are a ton of variables such as how lively the acoustics are, number of bodies in the crowd, size of room, etc.

Ever notice how different the acoustics are when you rehearse in an empty room, set your levels and EQ, then when the room fills up it's completely different. The bodies dampen the acoustics/ frequencies and standing waves.

The group I played in had a pretty good three tier system but the leader decided to go with the Bose PAS system for portability.
After rehearsal one night I told him my ears were ringing like never before. He kind of brushed me off. I went home and got my Radio Shack SPL meter and while we were practicing again I turned it on and was getting 121 db from my spot!

I quit soon after....... :x


Did I ever tell you I hate Bose PAS systems.....
Tom

Don't let that smoke out!
CaseyJones
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Re: Thoughts

Post by CaseyJones »

mlp-mx6 wrote:
CaseyJones wrote:When you're deaf you're not a musician anymore.
Don't tell Beethoven! :wink:
"The exception is the rule".

I'm not Beethoven. I'll bet you're not, either.
Structo wrote:
High sound pressure levels onstage makes deaf musicians. When you're deaf you're not a musician anymore.
Not to mention it muddies up the FOH mix.
You can get away with a mix in a small venue that simply won't work in a large hall. Nothing will tell the story quite like tapping the mix on the way to the amps and recording it. Use an old fashioned cassette recorder, digital clipping can be pretty ugly. Save the pristine recording for a pristine signal.

I remember my first "off the board" recording well. That band was looking at each other funny like, "We don't sound THAT bad, do we?" The truth is no, you don't. What happens is that anything that's really loud onstage won't make it into the mix. The drums won't be in there at all. Guitars and bass will be really low. Keys and vocals will be in yer face. What's happening is that the spill from the bass, drums and guitars is so loud it sounds approximately correct out front. The downside is that because none of the bottom end is making it into the mix about the only place in the room where it has any thump is right in front of the stage.

Ladies and gentleman, boys and girls don't try that in a large venue.
Last edited by CaseyJones on Wed Jan 02, 2008 4:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
mlp-mx6
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Re: Thoughts

Post by mlp-mx6 »

Uh, no I'm not. Don't think I was claiming to be. Did you miss the wink?
CaseyJones wrote:
mlp-mx6 wrote:
CaseyJones wrote:When you're deaf you're not a musician anymore.
Don't tell Beethoven! :wink:
"The exception is the rule".

I'm not Beethoven. I'll bet you're not, either.
Wife: How many amps do you need?
Me: Just one more...
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Structo
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Re: Thoughts

Post by Structo »

In my experience, standing if front of the stage results in the least amount of bass. The wave form is simply to long.
Now go stand 20 ft away from the stage and that long wave will hit you in the face.

In my opinion, a loud stage volume can definitely make it into the FOH mix, through open microphones, not to mention frequency cancelling issues from acoustic phase shifts.

The reason a stage mix sounds like crap on a recording is because it is just that, a stage mix.
I'm sure you are aware that when recording live, they have another board acoustically isolated in another room to record from.

If I misunderstood your post, simply ignore my response.
Tom

Don't let that smoke out!
CaseyJones
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Re: Thoughts

Post by CaseyJones »

Structo wrote:In my experience, standing if front of the stage results in the least amount of bass. The wave form is simply to long.
Now go stand 20 ft away from the stage and that long wave will hit you in the face.
I'm talking bass drum. Drums are an acoustic instrument. There's that crack you get right at the interface of the beater and the drumhead. It's easy to screw up in the mix.
Structo wrote:In my opinion, a loud stage volume can definitely make it into the FOH mix, through open microphones, not to mention frequency cancelling issues from acoustic phase shifts.
My least favorite situation would be a stage with a cinder block back wall and no backdrop. What makes it even worse is if there's a flat floor (like a dance hall not a theater) and the front wall is hard, too. The sound bounces off the walls and into the mics. Just for giggles I'll turn up a vocal mic or two before the band gets on stage, it sounds like a million people are in the hall. The crowd noise bounces off the back wall and into the mics. It's one of a few tricks I use to wind up a crowd.
Structo wrote:The reason a stage mix sounds like crap on a recording is because it is just that, a stage mix.
I'm sure you are aware that when recording live, they have another board acoustically isolated in another room to record from..
Sure. But the board doesn't have to be isolated.

The typical live situation these days has a main board and a monitor board. For a pro setup everyone can have their own monitor mix, I like that because I can hear everything I want to hear but I don't have to listen to anything I don't want to hear. I worked for one band where the bass player was the lead singer, the drummer was right behind him. About the only thing he wanted to hear in his monitor was his voice!

ANYWAY the trick is to do one mix for the tape and another mix for the room. A Flat Earth Society perspective would assume that both mixes would be the same. In a large venue they might be close.
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