HAD is alive and well and policing ebay....

[ToneMerc]

[quote="Tonegeek" So if I sell a custom race car with a Ford motor in it they are going to pull my auction? Whats the difference between that and selling an amp you built yourself that has a brand x phase inverter circuit or brand y overdrive circuit. . I will be ready to sue if my auction gets blocked [/quote]

Talk apples to apples..........if you sell a homebuilt car calling it a Shelby AC 427 Cobra then there would be a problem if the owner had that has the phrase trademarked, didn't grant you permission to use it.

The issue at hand is trademark infridgement and "DUMBLE" as referenced to musical gear is trademarked. So unless eBay wants to risk being complicite in a trademark infridgement case, they are going to pull the ad.

So before you rag eBay, maybe you should contact HAD and tell him that you would like to challenge his registered trademark in court because you think the principle of intellectual property, copy and trademarks rights plain sucks. As a patent holding engineer, I don't fault anyone for enforcing their rights.


DUMBLE
Goods and Services IC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S: ELECTRICAL APPARATUS FOR USE WITH GUITARS AND OTHER SERVICES PURPOSES - NAMELY AMPLIFIERS, LOUDSPEAKERS, AND COMPONENTS AND ACCESSORIES FOR SUCH ELECTRICAL APPARATUS-NAMELY, AMPLIFIER CORDS, FOOT PEDAL CONTROLS, AMPLIFIER COVERS, AMPLIFIER VOLUME AND TONE CONTROLS, AND SPEAKER CABINETS. FIRST USE: 19650000. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19690000

IC 015. US 002 021 036. G & S: MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS - NAMELY ELECTRIC GUITARS, AND COMPONENTS AND ACCESSORIES FOR GUITARS - NAMELY NECKS, HEADS, BODIES, PICKUPS, PICKUP COVERS, PICKGUARDS, AND CUSTOM FINISHES. FIRST USE: 19650000. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19670000

Mark Drawing Code (5) WORDS, LETTERS, AND/OR NUMBERS IN STYLIZED FORM
Serial Number 76366099
Filing Date February 4, 2002
Current Filing Basis 1A
Original Filing Basis 1A
Published for Opposition July 20, 2004
Registration Number 2892356
Registration Date October 12, 2004
Owner (REGISTRANT) Dumble, Howard Alexander INDIVIDUAL UNITED STATES c/o xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Type of Mark TRADEMARK
Register PRINCIPAL-2(F)
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE


TM

[Normster]

Kinda makes me want to put a Dumble clone on ebay just so I can get a personal email from HAD.

[groovtubin]

Kinda makes me want to put a Dumble clone on ebay just so I can get a personal email from HAD.

Man you like t alive on the EDGE!! lolol!!

FWIW ( hope Howard reads this) I have found virtually EVERY freakin tweak in the HIFI design handbook, or the RCA manual, AND FENDER AMPS..if we INTELLIGENTLY use our FREAKIN BRAINS< and i DO HIGHLY respect HIS talent, what @ him respecting OUR TALENT AS WELL????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
respectfully, jim@Omegaamps.com, HAD you can call me and hassle me if you like, we can talk @ beer and harlies!! 336-921-2413.. Me and a buddy do NUTHIN but brag on how cool you are, and how you opened up this stuff for a GENERATION< don`t you feel at least somewhat like errr.....you owe it to the amp community to be a guru and legend?? Capable of handing down something stellar and righteous?? For sure a mans days are numbered, you CANT take it with you............... BTW, i`ve NEVER been in one of your amps, but i am intelligent enough to read books, study, apply myself, be dedicated, respect my elders, and build ONE ASS KIKIN AMP DUDE!! Just like YOU did............

[Lcovemusic]

Personally I was just happy to learn 2 new words....

"Cupidity" (apparently I'm a greedy bastard) and "Casuistry" (my clever but misguided reasoning)

[groovtubin]

Personally I was just happy to learn 2 new words....

"Cupidity" (apparently I'm a greedy bastard) and "Casuistry" (my clever but misguided reasoning)

Thats great, But HAD doesn`t seem the type to hang out at TEA parties w/Harvard graduate. students, altho i could def be WRONG....

[Tonegeek]

Talk apples to apples..........if you sell a homebuilt car calling it a Shelby AC 427 Cobra then there would be a problem if the owner had that has the phrase trademarked, didn't grant you permission to use it.

The issue at hand is trademark infridgement and "DUMBLE" as referenced to musical gear is trademarked. So unless eBay wants to risk being complicite in a trademark infridgement case, they are going to pull the ad.

So before you rag eBay, maybe you should contact HAD and tell him that you would like to challenge his registered trademark in court because you think the principle of intellectual property, copy and trademarks rights plain sucks. As a patent holding engineer, I don't fault anyone for enforcing their rights.

TM

I agree that you should not be able to sell your object by labelling it with someone elses trademarked name. That is not the issue here. The issue is being able to describe your object using terms that the audience can relate to. This is done all the time in commercials watched every night by millions for people. Look at any pharma add. Not only does one drug company mention other drug companies products but they do it in a way that denigrates the other product. "our product X is better than your product Y" In the case of the VVT, the amp is not being sold as a Dumble. It doesnt even look like one. There is no attempt to pass this off as a counterfeit. Dumble is more an adjective in this case, not a proper name. The VVT can stand on its own, with no help from HAD, I am certain. I am all for protecting intellectual property, but eBay's response in this case is just unreasonable, and so is HAD's "missive" about it. A tempest in a teapot...

[talbany]

I just find this whole thing totally BIZARRE!! and down right depressing!!!
First we the amp building community who take homage in honoring this man's work by replicating or refrencing his design in one form or another in a very positive way... In doing so we reinforce this to the general public... In actuality becoming the very catalyst behind driving the demand for his product to legendary status .. Do you really think his amps would be worth as much as they are if it wasn't for Andy, Bill, Brandon and everyone else here..Sorry no way Jay...It wasn't until the counterfeit works of famous artists showed up that drove paintings to invaluable pieces of art.. (Not to say HAD was a Picasso or that we're counter fitters Just an example here)...My point... it's the natural transition between valuable and invaluable... it's the proof of real talent.. doesn't he realize this..Most artists are dead when this happends.....Hey HAD if your reading this nobody here is getting rich off your design Bro... This is the natural transition that takes place with a true one of a kind... if you were a smart man or a historian you could recognize this and be thankful it is happening to you and leave the very people who honor your work and help seal your fate as a true innovator of guitar amp design be......

Not some paranoid everybody's trying to rip me off E-Bay surfer... I want to remember you as above all that!! Sheeesh!!


Dumble Dumble Dumble Dumble Dumble Dumble Dumble Dumble Dumble Dumble Dumble Dumble Dumble Dumble Dumble Dumble



Tony VVT

[groovtubin]

I just find this whole thing totally BIZARRE!!
First we the amp building community who take homage in honoring this man's work by replicating or refrencing his design in one form or another in a positive way... In doing so we reinforce this to the general public... In actuality becoming the very catalyst behind driving the demand for his product to new heights.. Do you really think his amps would be worth as much as they are if it wasn't for Andy, Bill, Brandon and everyone else here..Sorry no way Jay...It wasn't until the counterfeit works of famous artists showed up that drove paintings to invaluable pieces of art.. (Not to say HAD was a Picasso or that we're counter fitters Just an example here)...My point... it's the natural transition between valuable and invaluable... it's the proof of real talent.. doesn't he realize this..Most artists are dead when this happends.....Hey HAD if your reading this nobody here is getting rich off your design Bro... This is the natural transition that takes place with a true one of a kind... if you were a smart man or a historian you could recognize this and be thankful it is happening to you and leave the very people who honor your work and help seal your fate as a true innovator of guitar amp design be......

Not some paranoid everybody's trying to rip me off E-Bay surfer... I want to remember you as above all that!! Sheeesh!!


Dumble Dumble Dumble Dumble Dumble Dumble Dumble Dumble Dumble Dumble Dumble Dumble Dumble Dumble Dumble Dumble



Tony VVT

good man charlie brown!

jp

[bluesfendermanblues]

I just find this whole thing totally BIZARRE!! and down right depressing!!!
First we the amp building community who take homage in honoring this man's work by replicating or refrencing his design in one form or another in a very positive way... In doing so we reinforce this to the general public... In actuality becoming the very catalyst behind driving the demand for his product to legendary status .. Do you really think his amps would be worth as much as they are if it wasn't for Andy, Bill, Brandon and everyone else here..Sorry no way Jay...It wasn't until the counterfeit works of famous artists showed up that drove paintings to invaluable pieces of art.. (Not to say HAD was a Picasso or that we're counter fitters Just an example here)...My point... it's the natural transition between valuable and invaluable... it's the proof of real talent.. doesn't he realize this..Most artists are dead when this happends.....Hey HAD if your reading this nobody here is getting rich off your design Bro... This is the natural transition that takes place with a true one of a kind... if you were a smart man or a historian you could recognize this and be thankful it is happening to you and leave the very people who honor your work and help seal your fate as a true innovator of guitar amp design be......

Not some paranoid everybody's trying to rip me off E-Bay surfer... I want to remember you as above all that!! Sheeesh!!

Dumble Dumble Dumble Dumble Dumble Dumble Dumble Dumble Dumble Dumble Dumble Dumble Dumble Dumble Dumble Dumble
Tony VVT

+1

[ToneMerc]

[quote="Tonegeek
Dumble is more an adjective in this case, not a proper name.[/quote]

It would be nearly impossible to not to convince a jury that the "adjective Dumble" when used in the context of an amplifier ad, would not be associated with the registered Dumble trademark.

Nevertheless, past case law has repeatly proven that trademarks can be enforced whether used in the context of a noun, verb or adjective description. There's no better example of this than Xerox.

I still don't understand why you have a problem with eBay. One has no constitutional right to buy or sell items there. As a condition for membership, one agrees to abide by a TOS agreement. If for some reason they see fit to pull an ad due to what they see as a trademark violation, what can you do? Is it their company and they own any possible liabilty.

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/int ... ty-ov.html

TM

[ToneMerc]

I just find this whole thing totally BIZARRE!! and down right depressing!!!
First we the amp building community who take homage in honoring this man's work by replicating or refrencing his design in one form or another in a very positive way... In doing so we reinforce this to the general public... In actuality becoming the very catalyst behind driving the demand for his product to legendary status .. Do you really think his amps would be worth as much as they are if it wasn't for Andy, Bill, Brandon and everyone else here..Sorry no way Jay...It wasn't until the counterfeit works of famous artists showed up that drove paintings to invaluable pieces of art.. (Not to say HAD was a Picasso or that we're counter fitters Just an example here)...My point... it's the natural transition between valuable and invaluable... it's the proof of real talent.. doesn't he realize this..Most artists are dead when this happends.....Hey HAD if your reading this nobody here is getting rich off your design Bro... This is the natural transition that takes place with a true one of a kind... if you were a smart man or a historian you could recognize this and be thankful it is happening to you and leave the very people who honor your work and help seal your fate as a true innovator of guitar amp design be......


Tony VVT

Tony, I respect him as a builder but some of this is plain ole' Karma in action. Nevertheless, I think the works of "Andy, Bill, Brandon and everyone else here" will gradually bring prices down.

TM

[Lcovemusic]

I don't think anyone is going to argue trademark law , am pretty sure that most people *get it*, I know I do..HAD has every right to enforce what is his..

I think this is more of a "letter of the law" vs a "spirit of the law" type deal....

It's kinda like getting a speeding ticket for going 2 mph over the posted limit and then the cop is a real dick about it.

Is it reasonable?

[Tonegeek]

It would be nearly impossible to not to convince a jury that the "adjective Dumble" when used in the context of an amplifier ad, would not be associated with the registered Dumble trademark.

Nevertheless, past case law has repeatly proven that trademarks can be enforced whether used in the context of a noun, verb or adjective description. There's no better example of this than Xerox.

I still don't understand why you have a problem with eBay. One has no constitutional right to buy or sell items there. As a condition for membership, one agrees to abide by a TOS agreement. If for some reason they see fit to pull an ad due to what they see as a trademark violation, what can you do? Is it their company and they own any possible liabilty.

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/int ... ty-ov.html

TM

I am not just ticked at eBay, its really the whole materialistic, sue happy mentality that permeates our society. These incidents just reinforce some of my negative stereotypes about capitalism and the fact that the pursuit of money just brings out the worst in people (which I supposed could be used to argue against my position in this case - ie. HAD needs a lawyer to protect himself from all those bad people on AG who are out to ruin him).

I am not a lawyer and am not able to debate the legal aspects. eBay can do whatever they see fit to run their operation, whether it seems unreasonable or not, but I don't have to like it. Their policy seems arbitrary and overly restrictive and flys in the face of common sense. It seems crazy to me that you cannot apparently use certain words, phrases or whatever to describe YOUR product. If you can't differentiate your product from others, or compare your product with others, then how can you sell anything? Common sense says I should be able to say my amp "sounds like", "looks like", "has the same effect as", etc. as long as I am not lying. I have a generic bottle of Eckerd's heartburn medication and right on the bottle it says to the effect "contains the same ingredients as Mylanta". Not sure this is a good example, but it makes you think.

I am sure it is hard to do the right thing when someone threatens you with a lawsuit. Our country is full of examples of the smart ruining the good by clubbing them to death with lawsuits or the threat therof. I have to hand it to HAD. He did not have the foresight or perhaps did not meet the legal requirements to patent anything, but is able to come back years after his missed opportunity to throw these temper tantrums and people just cave in. Just so you know, I don't have a horse in this race. I only build amps for myself and an occasional friend. Just my 2 cents on what I think the real injustice is.

[Funkalicousgroove]

Very simple, there is a Dog toy called a "Dumble DOG" simply get one and offer your amp as "X amplifier with free dumble dog toy"

[Structo]

Just call it a Bumble.

Can somebody hand me a Kleenex? Oooops, I mean a paper tissue.