Made some Dogear tweaks today...

Overdrive Special, Steel String Singer, Dumbleland, Odyssey, Winterland, etc. -
Members Only

Moderators: pompeiisneaks, Colossal

User avatar
ayan
Posts: 1340
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:04 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Made some Dogear tweaks today...

Post by ayan »

dogears wrote:Hi Gil,

Is the Vox model closer??

I don't think the loss of full treble pot is a big deal, for me. I never ever come close to getting up there in my settings.

Best bet is to use a cherry picked treble pot. I agree on that.....

So, the big question is, have you measured other Dumble treble pots? Just curious....
Sadly, I think neither the Fender nor the Vox is close enough, other than for some selected settings. :(

The only information I have about pots from the real thing will not help much, and this is from an 80s amp: T = 229K, B = 226 K, M = 93K. So much for Dumble using "cherry pots" based upon that! :)

Gil
User avatar
Tdale
Posts: 742
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 6:24 pm
Location: Norway

Re: Made some Dogear tweaks today...

Post by Tdale »

Unfortunately, tone stacks are the part of an amp where I understand the least..

Which one of the stacks that you mentioned, are close to the hybrid? Any schematics posted here that shows the "correct" one?

Tommy
User avatar
ayan
Posts: 1340
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:04 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Made some Dogear tweaks today...

Post by ayan »

Tdale wrote:Unfortunately, tone stacks are the part of an amp where I understand the least..

Which one of the stacks that you mentioned, are close to the hybrid? Any schematics posted here that shows the "correct" one?

Tommy
Tommy, I can give you a crude description of how the TS works. I am not sure which ones are the Hybrid XX or not, I've never used those schematics, but the information I included in my previous post should let you see whether they are the same tone stacks shown in the Hybrid schematics or not.

Anyway, I see the TS in the following way: The signal hits the input of it, at the very output of the preceding 12AX7 stage (V1A in Dumble's case). From there, there are two options:

1. Travel through a small coupling cap (330pF) to the treble pot, which will feed the volume control and the next stage, V1B. It is intuitive at this point that the bigger this coupling cap, which is the treble cap, the more lower-frequency content will be able to pass to the next stage at high treble settings.

2. Travel through the slope resistor to the junction of the bass and middle caps. Right off the batt, this is telling you that the higher the slope resistor, the more isolation there will be with respect to the middle and bass controls, or in other words, the stronger the effect of the treble control.

2A. After the signal has passed through the slope resistor, one possible solution is that it travel to ground through the middle cap and pot. The pot is a variable resistor to ground, so the lower the setting of the middle pot, the more signal will go straight to ground. Also note that the smaller the value of the middle cap, the less amount of lower-frequency content will be dumped to ground. Or in other words, the smaller the middle cap, the thicker the amp will sound.

2B. Also after the slope resistor, whatever doesn't go to ground via the middle cap + pot, will try to go through the bass cap. At the output of that cap, the signal has two choices: either choose to travel to the bottom of the treble pot -- in which case it will make its way to the preamp volume control and therefore to V1B (next stage) -- or go to ground through the bass pot, if this path offers less resistance (i.e., depending on the setting of the bass pot).

In short, I see the tone stack as a panning control thanks to the treble pot. Dial that up pretty high, and the treble cap will have a lot to say about what the sound will be like; dial that lower, and then it will be up to the bass and middle controls to determine what other frequencies pass to the next stage, V1B.

Hope this helps,

Gil
Normster
Posts: 1183
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2006 12:26 pm
Location: Sacramento, CA
Contact:

Re: Made some Dogear tweaks today...

Post by Normster »

ayan wrote:2. Early 80s TS -- Treble: 330pF cap, 250KA pot; Bass: .1uF cap, 250KA pot with 1K tail to ground; Middle: 100KB pot, .047uF cap; slope = 150K. I like this guy, except I prefer a linear pot for the treble. I think this TS is suited for people who don't use a "super phat" treble pickup sound and that prefer to have the option of having a "clear" positions 2 and 4 w/Strat, and use a guitar with humbuckers on the neck pickup.
This is very close to what I ended up with on my Bassman, except that I used a 270pF for the treble cap and 500kA bass pot (w/.001 cap). It has a very pleasing tone with all of my guitars...semi-hollow, Strat, and Tele. I haven't tried a 250kA mid pot w/.01 cap yet.

Tommy, I think if you plug Gil's values into the Hybrid-A schematic you'll be off to a great start.
dogears
Posts: 1902
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 1:29 pm

Re: Made some Dogear tweaks today...

Post by dogears »

Norm,

Keep in mind the midpot is a variable resistor to ground. 250ka or 100kb makes no difference except total amount of mids available at 10, and the dial position. I stick with the 250ka as it offers more setting range.

You could also put a switch there to choose .01 or .047.... That way you can have your cake and eat it too.
Normster wrote:
ayan wrote:2. Early 80s TS -- Treble: 330pF cap, 250KA pot; Bass: .1uF cap, 250KA pot with 1K tail to ground; Middle: 100KB pot, .047uF cap; slope = 150K. I like this guy, except I prefer a linear pot for the treble. I think this TS is suited for people who don't use a "super phat" treble pickup sound and that prefer to have the option of having a "clear" positions 2 and 4 w/Strat, and use a guitar with humbuckers on the neck pickup.
This is very close to what I ended up with on my Bassman, except that I used a 270pF for the treble cap and 500kA bass pot (w/.001 cap). It has a very pleasing tone with all of my guitars...semi-hollow, Strat, and Tele. I haven't tried a 250kA mid pot w/.01 cap yet.

Tommy, I think if you plug Gil's values into the Hybrid-A schematic you'll be off to a great start.
mlp-mx6
Posts: 1111
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 4:24 pm
Location: NW Atlanta

Re: Made some Dogear tweaks today...

Post by mlp-mx6 »

I did exactly that - a SPDT switch to select a .01 or .047 mid cap. Excellent tweak!
User avatar
Tdale
Posts: 742
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 6:24 pm
Location: Norway

Re: Made some Dogear tweaks today...

Post by Tdale »

Gil, that was an excelent explanation!!!

I guess some of the confusion, is all the switches included in the hybrid-a schematic.. deep, rock/jazz, boost, mid boost etx.. I'll try to make a schematic of the TS you explained, and post it, so you can check if I'm on the right track.

Tommy
jazzyjoepass
Posts: 192
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2006 4:23 am

Re: Made some Dogear tweaks today...

Post by jazzyjoepass »

Guys, how about some explanation on the deep and rock/jazz switches?

Also, the bright switch on mine seems to act more like a mid boost. There's abit of mid/bass content going in when I switch it in.

Weird.
llemtt
Posts: 332
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 3:13 pm

Re: Made some Dogear tweaks today...

Post by llemtt »

Jazzy

Which bright cap value are you using? It sounds too much, try to reduce it, you can go low until typical fender 100-120p.

teo
Post Reply