Help me pick/build an amp (post-rock preference)

[steve-o]

Hey all!
I want to get a new amp. I'm thinking I'd like to mod an existing amp vs. build a new one from scratch. Of course, if the amp is just right from session one, I'll leave it alone.
Here's my problem and why I need y'alls help: I haven't played a ton of amps in my life, so I don't know exactly what I'm looking for. Do I want tube or solid state rectification? Or, if I change my mind later, is it easier to go from tube to solid state or vis versa?
Here's what I do know:
A lot of the bands I like are playing various silverface fenders (twins, super reverbs, and showmans).
The bands I'm referring to are bands like: six parts seven, explosions in the sky, this will destroy you.
Any thoughts?
Thanks for chiming in!
steve

[briane]

get a dumble style, its very versatile.

Tubes are required.

Order a dlite kit and build it, youll be happy. (or if the build is too much, order it assembled)

Note: I have a lot of guys who come around, they try all sorts of amps...Every single one of them goes straight for the dumble, and thats what they walk out with. I have given up on other amps.

[Structo]

Typically a amp with a tube rectifier will have more "sag" than a solid state rectifier.

Describing sag can be a bit difficult if you have never heard or felt it.

It's kind of like on the attack of the note it fades just a bit then comes back.
This all happens in a millisecond.

Sort of like how a compressor sounds or feels.

A solid state supply will feel stiffer and you won't really get much sag if at all.

There are a few amps that have a switch so you can choose either tube or diode rectification.

It is something that you really need to try in order to understand it.
And I suppose it depends on the style of music you like to play.

I must be an old fogey because I don't know any of the bands you listed.

I built and own a Brown Note D'Lite 44 (2 x 6L6 power tubes) and it has become my favorite amp out of the four amps I currently own.

Well, real recently the little 6v6 amp I build is fun.

If you have zero electronics knowledge or experience, you might not be up to building even a kit since most of them do not come with instructions.

You just get a box of parts and you have to follow a schematic and layout.
There are a few exceptions to this, such as Allen Amps.
His amps are kind of like hot rodded blackfaces.

Right off hand I can't think of any others. Does Weber have instructions?

Anyway, my advice would be to go to a music store that has quite a few amps and just try them out and try to play one that has a tube rectifier and one that has a solid state power supply.

If you don't live near any large music stores I guess you are out of luck as far as trying them out.

In the end, the sky is the limit as there are very many small amp companies nowadays.
You are only limited by your budget as these tube amps can run from $300 to $10,000.

EDIT:
I just re-read your post.

If you know the type of sound you want by listening to the bands you like and you know what they use, that is a pretty good guide to what amp you should buy.

You can still find fairly decent silver faced Fenders at prices that won't break the bank, but they are going up as well.

If you have the money, now is a great time to get a great deal.
Prices have dropped quite a bit recently on used amps.

[steve-o]

Thank you both for your responses. They are much appreciated. I guess what it comes down to (for me) is that amps have more subjective value (what cool things I can do with it) than objective value ( the cool thing that it is on its own). I only learned this about myself after spending close to 200 hours building my first amp (an 18 watt combo that ended up resembling a cross between an 18 watt Marshall and a tophat club deluxe). It uses an EZ81 for the recto. I like this amp very much and it does a couple of things quite well. I'd be loathe to sell it and the only change I'd make to it is putting it into a different/better cabinet.

The admonishment to play lots of amps and figure it out from there is not lost on me. I just hate going into music stores and turning stuff up and taking people's time when I may or may not buy anything from them.

I think what I'll do from here is pick up a SS rectified fender 6L6 head as I already have a 2x12 cab I really like. If nothing else, it should teach me more about what I like and don't like in a 6L6-based circuit. I shouldn't lose much on the transaction if I decide to sell it (as I won't do much to the head).
Thanks.
steve

[CapnCrunch]

Steve-O

You're not far from Portland right? Start checking Craigslist regularly i.e. every day for the next month. Watch for a silver face or even a black face Bassman or Bandmaster head. When they come up, they are usually pretty cheap. You may need to re-cap them, but if you already have a good 2x12 cab (which you evidently do), they will give you a huge bang for the buck. You can play them for a year and sell them for no loss if you don't like them. I personally don't understand why more people don't play black face bassmans. They sound awesome through a good cab.

Get an attenuator and crank it. If you think Fender is all about clean and the vintage Marshall's evolved for those who liked to rock, well you'll be in for a bit of a surprise Funny thing about the black face Fenders. They may be overly bright and glassy at low volumes, but when you get them cranked over about 6 (i.e. really F#$%ing loud) the high end gets attenuated when the power tubes start to saturate, and you get a classic rock and roll tone that you have heard on many many of your favorite songs Try em, you might like em.

[benoit]

Haha.. I went and set up an explosions in the sky station in pandora, and the next two bands, in order, were Six Parts Seven and This Will Destroy You. The vintage fenders are a great idea, but if you want to build an amp, I'll second the Dumble idea. An effects loop, versatile OD channel, and built in boost could come in really handy for some of that spacey textural stuff, as well as being useful for almost any other project you might become involved in later.

[dave g]

Agreed on the D-style amp...I think that the silverface Fender trend with a lot of indie bands around right now is mostly an image driven thing - similar to the popularity of the "other" Fender guitars like the Mustang with grunge bands in the early 90's.

A good D-style will sound a lot better and be a lot more versatile. You might want to try a low-plate non-HRM with a built-in Dumbleator for the sounds you're going for.

[steve-o]

I went down to a shop that has a bunch of fenders (BF, SF, bassman, showman, dual showman reverb, pro reverb, bandmaster, bandmaster reverb, super reverb, etc.) I got to play a ton of different amps and it was such a treat! I felt like I was at a 5-star restaurant eating a 5 course meal! I didn't get to crank anything much past 4, but it gave me a lot of perspective on what I'm going for.
One thing I discovered: I like the SS rectifier in those amps. I played a modded 64 bandmaster that had a 5u4GB and didn't like it as much.
Another thing: those BF circuit designs were great. I tried doing a blind test of different silverface amps. The only two that I liked were an ab763 showman and a non-master pro reverb that had some mods done to it.
So, I think the only silverface amp I'd consider at this point would be an ab763 showman. But, that's ALOT of amp. I'll probably go for a blackface bandmaster.
What do you guys think is a good price for one of those in good condition?
The shop wanted $800 for '67 and $850 for a '65

[CapnCrunch]

I'm telling you man. Watch Craigslist for a while. I'm up in the Seattle area, and I watch the listings in Portland. Portland is a musicians town. There is a lot of musical gear traded in Portland. Wait till you see a black face bassman or bandmaster. You should be able to pick up either head for around $500. $800 is too much. The only way I'd consider paying that amount is if the amp had already been capped (by a reputable tech) and a grounded cord installed, and the amp had NOS tubes in it. That's my .02

Of course, if you've gotta have it now.............You should still be able to talk them down $100.

[Buschman]

Building a Tweed Bassman would reward with a very fine sounding amp. Louder than your recent build and very big sounding. It is also very tweakable. I played them for years until I realized I love the 18 watt and Trainwreck stuff more. A bassman with a gz34 and a 12ax7 in v1 can be pretty loud. Cool thing is you can turn the tone controls way down and crank the volume and it is almost like a master volume.

[steve-o]

I'm gonna' try owning a bandmaster or showman first. I think that will give me a take on where I want to go form there. If owning one of those amps does the trick, awesome! If not, you can count on seeing me asking every question known to man. Maybe not every question; I figured out a few things on my last build.
So, I'm checkin' the ol' craigslist and ebay twice a day for amps. I'll let you know what I get.
steve-o