Any #124 clips around?

lunastromoner · Post by **lunastromoner** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:55 pm

Hi everybody,

I'm new to the board and I'm interested in building a clone of the #124 circuit without the FET input. I've built several amps in the last couple of years, but this would be 1) my first non-kit build and 2) my most difficult build.

Are there any sound clips floating around? I've looked through the board and I found ic-racer's clip of the three amps (thanks very much for that, btw!), but I'm wondering if there are any more clips out there.

Thanks so much for being here for questions, this is a great resource!

-Tim

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:39 am

Which circuit do you consider to be the real thing?

I dare say if you wanted to, you could use a Ceriatone kit. They do look very similar to what I suspect is the 124 circuit.

lunastromoner · Post by **lunastromoner** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:36 pm

I downloaded the schematic and layout from the Files section of the forum. It's my understanding that those are as close as I could get to the original #124?

Maybe this is a better question to ask:

I'm mostly playing a Les Paul. I'm looking for a warm, sparkly clean sound, but the most important thing to me is the smooth, agressive overdrive sound. What's the circuit that would get me closest to that? I love the tone in this clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ap6odoC4 ... re=related
The clean sound isn't really what I'm looking for, but the overdrive sounds great!

I thought about the Ceriatone kit, but I don't like that the boards are pre-assembled. I'm a student, and I feel like I would learn more from building an amp from scratch (which is something I've never done).

Structo · Post by **Structo** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 2:37 pm

I don't think the ODS clean is as sparkly clean as say a blackface Fender would be.
It has a bit of hair on it when the volume is up.

Possibly a 100 watter has more clean headroom but the 50 watt version doesn't in my experience.

lunastromoner · Post by **lunastromoner** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 3:04 pm

I've heard some really clean sound clips from ODS amps, but maybe they were 100 watters/turned down pretty low.

Anyways, I built an Allen amp for clean sounds, so the overdrive is really the sound I'm looking for!

ayan · Post by **ayan** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 4:38 pm

lunastromoner wrote:Are there any sound clips floating around?
-Tim

This is my version of it, recorded at home with a cassette handheld. There are three clips here:

http://www.ayanmusic.com/audio.htm

This is the very same amp, guitar and player (i.e., me), but recorded live, so the amp is loud. This one is a large download, it is a video (with audio on one side only), and I do most of the playing after minute 18 or so, so you may want to fastforward if you want to hear more of the amp.

http://www.ayanmusic.com/videos/Dr_Wu_M ... d_set.divx

Hope it helps,

Gil

lunastromoner · Post by **lunastromoner** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 5:42 pm

Wow. That's exactly the sound I'm looking for! Great playing, as well! Thank you very much!

Will the Ceriatone chassis be suitable for this amp?

ayan · Post by **ayan** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 5:56 pm

lunastromoner wrote:Wow. That's exactly the sound I'm looking for! Great playing, as well! Thank you very much!

Will the Ceriatone chassis be suitable for this amp?

I don't see any reason why it would not be just fine. Although I don't believe it makes much of a difference, as I also have amps with different transformers, that particular amp has a Marshall style PT and OT. That leaves the plates at about 485 VDC, so definitely hotter than what you get from a Fender style PT, which would be around 440 VDC. Still, as I said, I don't believe that would stand between an amp and the sound you heard on the clips. Not sure what kind of voltages you end up with using Nik's amps or kits.

That particular amp is currently running E34Ls (JJs) and different preamp tubes, I know there is a JJ or two in there and a Chinese 12AX7B. The single biggest difference anything I did to that amp ever made on the sound was spending an afternoon finding the right tubes for it. The "fine tuned" amp is what you hear on the video clip. For the audio clips, the amp had just "whatever" type of preamp tubes.

Gil

Structo · Post by **Structo** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 6:00 pm

I thought I read somewhere that Nik is not selling bare chassis anymore.
They are still listed for $65 on his site though.

odourboy · Post by **odourboy** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:07 am

I just did 'tune-up' on an OTS for a fellow last weekend. He bought a completed 'S&M' 50W OTS from Nik.

It didn't sound great when he brought it in (which is why he brought it to me to begin with of course). I basically undid all the S&M mods to bring it back to an 80's high plate resistor 'standard'. The V1-V3 voltages were all too high for my liking so I adjusted the dropping string. Finally, I added a Gil Ayan approved post OD treble bleed. That was it. Just a few hours of tweaking. It's a completely different amp now. It really sings! So it's clear to me that with a bit of TLC, these things can be made to perform.

FYI - I measured the B+ voltage off the supply at 469V. (My AC mains are a healthy 122VAC)

lunastromoner · Post by **lunastromoner** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:53 am

ayan wrote:I don't see any reason why it would not be just fine. Although I don't believe it makes much of a difference, as I also have amps with different transformers, that particular amp has a Marshall style PT and OT. That leaves the plates at about 485 VDC, so definitely hotter than what you get from a Fender style PT, which would be around 440 VDC. Still, as I said, I don't believe that would stand between an amp and the sound you heard on the clips. Not sure what kind of voltages you end up with using Nik's amps or kits.

That particular amp is currently running E34Ls (JJs) and different preamp tubes, I know there is a JJ or two in there and a Chinese 12AX7B. The single biggest difference anything I did to that amp ever made on the sound was spending an afternoon finding the right tubes for it. The "fine tuned" amp is what you hear on the video clip. For the audio clips, the amp had just "whatever" type of preamp tubes.

Gil

Here's my understanding from reading previous posts on the forum:
For a #124 build, always use a Marshall style PT. If you want to run 6L6 tubes, then use a Fender Twin style OT. Is that correct? I think I would like to run 6L6s.

I know exactly what you mean about preamp tubes! I built a Hiwatt DR504 clone from Vintage Hiwatt Restorations last August and I when I put in a couple of NOS Mullards it made a huge difference over the new production Tung-Sol tubes which were in there. I'll definitely plan on doing some testing!

Structo, I'll email Nik about the chassis and see what he says.

odourboy, I'm actually thinking I'll build the amp from scratch, hopefully just using the Ceriatone chassis. That's interesting though, what are the S&M mods? I haven't seen that term used on previous posts...

ayan · Post by **ayan** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:59 am

lunastromoner wrote: Here's my understanding from reading previous posts on the forum:
For a #124 build, always use a Marshall style PT. If you want to run 6L6 tubes, then use a Fender Twin style OT. Is that correct? I think I would like to run 6L6s.

The real thing has a Fender Twin output transfomer...

lunastromoner wrote: I know exactly what you mean about preamp tubes! I built a Hiwatt DR504 clone from Vintage Hiwatt Restorations last August and I when I put in a couple of NOS Mullards it made a huge difference over the new production Tung-Sol tubes which were in there. I'll definitely plan on doing some testing!

It will pay off.

Gil

jim · Post by **jim** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 3:05 am

Very nice video clip Gil! Nothing more important than a good deep pocket. It's tough for a drummer to do Bernard but he did a great job! I loved your nice fat tone!

Thanks for posting that,

Jim

odourboy · Post by **odourboy** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 3:31 am

lunastromoner wrote: odourboy, I'm actually thinking I'll build the amp from scratch, hopefully just using the Ceriatone chassis. That's interesting though, what are the S&M mods? I haven't seen that term used on previous posts...

S&M is Sami & Marin Special. Mods are in BLUE

http://www.ceriatone.com/images/layoutP ... pecial.jpg

I don't know the history of these mods, but I have to say that I liked the amp more when I undid them. I also went with a 100KA midpot.

FWIW, I did a scratch build on a Ceriatone chassis and faceplates. The chassis is a bit flimsy and I had to mod it to accommodate the iron I used (Bassman stuff from Allen), but overall it was successful.

stelligan · Post by **stelligan** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:49 am

odourboy wrote: FWIW, I did a scratch build on a Ceriatone chassis and faceplates. The chassis is a bit flimsy and I had to mod it to accommodate the iron I used (Bassman stuff from Allen), but overall it was successful.

Brian,

Did you use a 340v-0-340v TP40 model? If so, do you remember the dropping string and voltages? I have one of those PTs waiting to be put into service. Sorry for the derail.... KILLER CLIPS Gil!

Thanks,
Dave

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