I just wanted to give a heads up and save others from a let down.
I needed a couple vintage 1960's Fender amplifier parts for a restoration project. After several weeks of searching the web, suppliers and friends. I found the parts at Angela, one of the trainwreck information sights on the web. I sent an email and requested the parts and explained what they were for, the reply was brief but promising, so I placed the order. On the website the parts are discribed as original, NOS, or direct replacement parts. The transaction went very smoothly, a tracking number was issued and the package arrived as scheduled. After opening the package and sifting threw packing peanuts to find all the parts, it turned out none of them where actual period correct Fender replacement parts. What steamed me wasn't even that they weren't right but that Angela charged almost double other supplier's claiming they were. Even going as far as posting them in a fender amp category on the website. On january 30th I promptly sent a polite email expressing my concern and requested an RA# as my client was not willing to use parts that were not correct and over priced.
A bad shipment is ok, it happens but then it all comes down to how a company handles returns and customer service!
I have yet to recieve a reply, I know the email link works because I got a reply within 3 hours everytime it was about giving steve money!
I stripped the parts from one of my vintage rentals to please the client.
It's all about customer service. Had Steve contacted me and even said sorry but all sales are final. I wouldn't have made this post, and I would have continued to do business with his company. but he chose to act like it never happened.
I hate to see people get burned.
Parts Order Dissapointment
Moderators: pompeiisneaks, Colossal
Parts Order Dissapointment
My Daughter Build Stone Henge
Re: Parts Order Dissapointment
Bummer...
I've ordered from old Steve quite a few times in the past and was never wronged but...
He is known to be ...huh...er...shall we say...grumpy... sometimes...
He should of got back to you...
I've ordered from old Steve quite a few times in the past and was never wronged but...
He is known to be ...huh...er...shall we say...grumpy... sometimes...
He should of got back to you...
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CaseyJones
- Posts: 856
- Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 1:29 pm
Re: Parts Order Dissapointment
The whole amp business is like that IMHO. You really have to know who sells what because everyone tells tall tales about "NOS", "Replicas", "exact replacement" parts, etc, etc, B.S., B.S..
It starts with reissue amps. "Reissues" of American classics that look nothing like American classics inside. "Reissues" of British classics that aren't even the same circuit as the originals. Rip-offs, bootlegs, friggin' smoke 'n' mirrors... don't get me started.
Here's the way it works:
"Back in the day" we made "the good stuff" here. Part of the deal was that we made so much "good stuff" during WWII that surplus sockets and tubes showed up in consumer electronics right through the '60s. All that industrial production that won the war had to be put to use so we had stuff like school busses with bodies made by ex-aircraft plants. Any facility that built to mil-spec had no problem adapting the technology to consumer electronics. That's all gone of course, all that's left is iconic brands owned by someone else and made somewhere else.
Of course we all want it cheap. We don't make it here anymore because we can't make it cheap. I'm not gonna name names and point fingers but we now rely on Bootleg Nation, friggin' factories who are so damn cheap they can't be bothered to buy the real thing to reverse-engineer to an actual sample. They reverse engineer to be a cosmetic copy of the original with whatever tooling they have available. If their tooling is metric and the original part is SAE (which is typical) the metric replica is neither "inch" or metric, it's a sloppy fitting part from the ether in between.
It has to be cheap cheap cheap of course. How 'bout the shitty Asian copies of the original Chicago based Drake manufacturing pilot lights? The U.S. made replacements are qorgeous, they're made for replacment use in vintage aircraft. The bezel around the jewel is nickel plate in the originals and chrome in the U.S. replicas but that's my only snivel.
The Asian "replicas" are garbage in terms of fit and finish. The jewel is plastic not glass, they whip it through the (incorrectly set) crimping dies so fast the jewel chips out. It looks like ass. The jewel won't fit flush. The import jewel will srew into a U.S. pilot assembly but an import assembly is a sloppy fit in the 5/8" mounting hole a U.S. assembly is supposed to go in, the "replica" is 14mm.
There's another cheap-o pilot out there, its primary asset is that you won't mistake it for the real thing. They look nothing alike. The chrome parts are chrome over plastic.
The knock off Pacific Basin assembly looks just like the real thing in internet images, it falls well short in reality. BTW that's another simple bootlegger trick, show an image of the real NOS deal then ship a shitty offshore copy.
'Course, we're all guilty too. We all want a $25k+ Trainwreck or a $35k+ Dumble but like I said and it bears repeating, WE ALL WANT DOUGH LEFT OVER FER A BEER AND A BAGGIE.
There may be around 10% unemployment in the general population but I suspect that number is much higher among musicians. I'd like to see a breakdown of amp sales volume sorted by price, I'm betting 2/3 to 3/4 of amp sales are under $500 with something like 90%+ under $1000. How many guys are spending top dollar for something that's 10/10ths? If there's only a tiny market for premium parts the economies of scale don't apply.
It starts with reissue amps. "Reissues" of American classics that look nothing like American classics inside. "Reissues" of British classics that aren't even the same circuit as the originals. Rip-offs, bootlegs, friggin' smoke 'n' mirrors... don't get me started.
Here's the way it works:
"Back in the day" we made "the good stuff" here. Part of the deal was that we made so much "good stuff" during WWII that surplus sockets and tubes showed up in consumer electronics right through the '60s. All that industrial production that won the war had to be put to use so we had stuff like school busses with bodies made by ex-aircraft plants. Any facility that built to mil-spec had no problem adapting the technology to consumer electronics. That's all gone of course, all that's left is iconic brands owned by someone else and made somewhere else.
Of course we all want it cheap. We don't make it here anymore because we can't make it cheap. I'm not gonna name names and point fingers but we now rely on Bootleg Nation, friggin' factories who are so damn cheap they can't be bothered to buy the real thing to reverse-engineer to an actual sample. They reverse engineer to be a cosmetic copy of the original with whatever tooling they have available. If their tooling is metric and the original part is SAE (which is typical) the metric replica is neither "inch" or metric, it's a sloppy fitting part from the ether in between.
It has to be cheap cheap cheap of course. How 'bout the shitty Asian copies of the original Chicago based Drake manufacturing pilot lights? The U.S. made replacements are qorgeous, they're made for replacment use in vintage aircraft. The bezel around the jewel is nickel plate in the originals and chrome in the U.S. replicas but that's my only snivel.
The Asian "replicas" are garbage in terms of fit and finish. The jewel is plastic not glass, they whip it through the (incorrectly set) crimping dies so fast the jewel chips out. It looks like ass. The jewel won't fit flush. The import jewel will srew into a U.S. pilot assembly but an import assembly is a sloppy fit in the 5/8" mounting hole a U.S. assembly is supposed to go in, the "replica" is 14mm.
There's another cheap-o pilot out there, its primary asset is that you won't mistake it for the real thing. They look nothing alike. The chrome parts are chrome over plastic.
The knock off Pacific Basin assembly looks just like the real thing in internet images, it falls well short in reality. BTW that's another simple bootlegger trick, show an image of the real NOS deal then ship a shitty offshore copy.
'Course, we're all guilty too. We all want a $25k+ Trainwreck or a $35k+ Dumble but like I said and it bears repeating, WE ALL WANT DOUGH LEFT OVER FER A BEER AND A BAGGIE.
There may be around 10% unemployment in the general population but I suspect that number is much higher among musicians. I'd like to see a breakdown of amp sales volume sorted by price, I'm betting 2/3 to 3/4 of amp sales are under $500 with something like 90%+ under $1000. How many guys are spending top dollar for something that's 10/10ths? If there's only a tiny market for premium parts the economies of scale don't apply.
Re: Parts Order Dissapointment
I've only ordered a few things from Steve.
I always got a prompt answer to my email questions and always received what I ordered in a timely fashion.
The other day I installed a set of Fender pickups on a customer's tele.
Like a fool I didn't test the resistance of the pickups before I installed them and the neck pickup was dead.
We pulled it out and I could not see anything visibly wrong.
My customer had bought them from Angela and he emailed Steve and he said to send them both back in the original package and he would make it right.
So this hasn't been resolved yet but it sounds promising.
I have gotten curt replies before from Steve but anybody can have a bad day or be stressed out answering a hundred emails a day.
So I'll reserve judgement until I hear how this pickup return works out.
I always got a prompt answer to my email questions and always received what I ordered in a timely fashion.
The other day I installed a set of Fender pickups on a customer's tele.
Like a fool I didn't test the resistance of the pickups before I installed them and the neck pickup was dead.
We pulled it out and I could not see anything visibly wrong.
My customer had bought them from Angela and he emailed Steve and he said to send them both back in the original package and he would make it right.
So this hasn't been resolved yet but it sounds promising.
I have gotten curt replies before from Steve but anybody can have a bad day or be stressed out answering a hundred emails a day.
So I'll reserve judgement until I hear how this pickup return works out.
Tom
Don't let that smoke out!
Don't let that smoke out!
Re: Parts Order Dissapointment
my issue was with a fuse holder and a reverb pan. both were anything but correct vintage fender parts. the reverb tank was a current reissue pan that you can buy direct from fender for $15 less then steve charges and lacks the warmth of the original transformer. no wonder he doesn't post a pic. the fuse holder is close to an original but a pressure fit where the original is a screw in.
It's to bad he bought a bunch of shit but lying to sell it for Vintage $$$ doesn't make for good word of mouth or repeat business.
It's to bad he bought a bunch of shit but lying to sell it for Vintage $$$ doesn't make for good word of mouth or repeat business.
My Daughter Build Stone Henge
Re: Parts Order Dissapointment
Steve is known to be a bit high priced. But, sometimes he has the goods. He is also known to be , curt, grumpy, short, don't waste my time, next!
To be fair though, Most vintage fuse holders are like the ones he has listed even vintage Fender. I only know of a few screw cap types.
as for reverb pans, You don't see old vintage ones, so a modern replacement is about all there is. I prefer the 3 spring upgrade anyway.
Now , if what he sent you is not what he has pictured , and you discussed it in detail with him and he assured you it was exactly what you were looking for, That is a completely different story.
Anyway, I have been doing business with Steve since the late 70's and I believe him to be one of the more honorable dealers out there. Even though I only go to him as a last resort, due to his high prices.
To be fair though, Most vintage fuse holders are like the ones he has listed even vintage Fender. I only know of a few screw cap types.
as for reverb pans, You don't see old vintage ones, so a modern replacement is about all there is. I prefer the 3 spring upgrade anyway.
Now , if what he sent you is not what he has pictured , and you discussed it in detail with him and he assured you it was exactly what you were looking for, That is a completely different story.
Anyway, I have been doing business with Steve since the late 70's and I believe him to be one of the more honorable dealers out there. Even though I only go to him as a last resort, due to his high prices.
Re: Parts Order Dissapointment
I expressed what I needed and made it very clear in several emails. The fuse holder I can get over but the Reverb pan is JUNK, and anything but what i was expecting to recieve!!! At least i'm only out $70 after shipping for the two parts. What sucks is had it been clear it was Reissue parts i could have bought them locally and saved $45.
I've wasted enough of my time on this and life goes on, but I can't promote a company that has no customer service and inflated prices.
If that is where you like to spend your money by all means order away, just be aware and expect very little from steve and you might not be let down.
just trying to save others the headache.
take care
I've wasted enough of my time on this and life goes on, but I can't promote a company that has no customer service and inflated prices.
If that is where you like to spend your money by all means order away, just be aware and expect very little from steve and you might not be let down.
just trying to save others the headache.
take care
My Daughter Build Stone Henge
Re: Parts Order Dissapointment
"I expressed what I needed and made it very clear in several emails."
Well in that case I agree, he should take them back, since there are not what he said they were.
Those parts are pretty inexpensive from CE fuse holder $1.90
reverb pan, $21 -$29 .
BTW, here is a vintage reverb tank on ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/1962-Gibbs-Hammond- ... s=72%3A570|
Well in that case I agree, he should take them back, since there are not what he said they were.
Those parts are pretty inexpensive from CE fuse holder $1.90
reverb pan, $21 -$29 .
BTW, here is a vintage reverb tank on ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/1962-Gibbs-Hammond- ... s=72%3A570|
Last edited by billyz on Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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CaseyJones
- Posts: 856
- Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 1:29 pm
Re: Parts Order Dissapointment
It's hard for me to take a definitive stance on this one.
There are only about half a dozen major suppliers of amp parts in the U.S.. Sure there are hundreds of little guys but it's pretty obvious who the movers and shakers are.
Angela has the goods. That's what's available for replacement parts. Take it or leave it I guess or start your own vintage amp scrapyard.
There's still no excuse for reaming prices, "bend over" shipping or shitty service.
Here's a problem I see again and again with amp parts suppliers... a lot of these guys started as hobbyists. They're still small businesses. As such they're small operations with small staffs. You'll have the same problems you'll get with any microbusiness like the business is too big for one guy to manage but too small to justify another salary or salaries. A lot of these guys simply can't afford to pay someone to fill in the gaps or they can't delegate responsibility.
There are only about half a dozen major suppliers of amp parts in the U.S.. Sure there are hundreds of little guys but it's pretty obvious who the movers and shakers are.
Angela has the goods. That's what's available for replacement parts. Take it or leave it I guess or start your own vintage amp scrapyard.
There's still no excuse for reaming prices, "bend over" shipping or shitty service.
Here's a problem I see again and again with amp parts suppliers... a lot of these guys started as hobbyists. They're still small businesses. As such they're small operations with small staffs. You'll have the same problems you'll get with any microbusiness like the business is too big for one guy to manage but too small to justify another salary or salaries. A lot of these guys simply can't afford to pay someone to fill in the gaps or they can't delegate responsibility.
Re: Parts Order Dissapointment
It's true , alot of these guys were the shit when they were little shops. Once they grow to big for their britches ( as my grandmother would say), service gets diminished. also, They hire people with less invested interest in the integrity of the store owner.
I used to do a fair amount of business with Ned at Triode, but his staff is the pits, and I now try to avoid Triode as much as possible, because of the bad service I have received recently.
But in the end I will go where I have to to get what I need. But I will be very careful doing it, not assuming the same level of integrity as used to be common.
I used to do a fair amount of business with Ned at Triode, but his staff is the pits, and I now try to avoid Triode as much as possible, because of the bad service I have received recently.
But in the end I will go where I have to to get what I need. But I will be very careful doing it, not assuming the same level of integrity as used to be common.
Re: Parts Order Dissapointment
Billyz, Uncle Ned left Triode a few years back and the owner had to take over in a hurry...
I have'nt ordered from them since due to hearsay...
As for Angela...Steve does know his shit...
Not easy to deal with "the public"...
I know i can't!
Sorry to hear of any problems though...
I have'nt ordered from them since due to hearsay...
As for Angela...Steve does know his shit...
Not easy to deal with "the public"...
I know i can't!
Sorry to hear of any problems though...
Re: Parts Order Dissapointment
thank you for the link to the vintage reverb!
My Daughter Build Stone Henge
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Blind Lemon
- Posts: 147
- Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2007 3:28 am
- Location: Okie
Re: Parts Order Dissapointment
What CJ said. Little Guy loves what he is doing on the side and decides to go full time. Bust his arss to make it work and gives great service and product. Get a great rep. and they get slammed, for one person, but theres not enough in it to hire help. Hobby business are the absolute worst.
I am having a problem as we speak with a custom PUP winder. He gets super reviews and the guys on the different forums love his PUPs. I order a set for my LP knowing that it will be 6 to 8 weeks. It's been over 12 and he has my money. He wont return my phone calls or e-mails. I know he's busy and I don't really care about the time it's taking, but poor customer service, there is no NO excuse for it.
At least here we can give each other a heads up. On the forum that I found this guy, they delete all negative post. Though back channels I have found out that this is the norm with this guy. Had I have known................
BL
I am having a problem as we speak with a custom PUP winder. He gets super reviews and the guys on the different forums love his PUPs. I order a set for my LP knowing that it will be 6 to 8 weeks. It's been over 12 and he has my money. He wont return my phone calls or e-mails. I know he's busy and I don't really care about the time it's taking, but poor customer service, there is no NO excuse for it.
At least here we can give each other a heads up. On the forum that I found this guy, they delete all negative post. Though back channels I have found out that this is the norm with this guy. Had I have known................
BL
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CaseyJones
- Posts: 856
- Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 1:29 pm
Re: Parts Order Dissapointment
Oooh... I feel one of my trademark patented copyrighted anecdotes comin' on!Blind Lemon wrote:What CJ said. Little Guy loves what he is doing on the side and decides to go full time. Bust his arss to make it work and gives great service and product. Get a great rep. and they get slammed, for one person, but theres not enough in it to hire help. Hobby business are the absolute worst.
It's like sex. Lotsa fun, right? It is unless you're a whore, then it's just a dirty degrading job. Work sucks!
Look up "Aversion Therapy". It's a procedure to make something that was too much fun become no fun at all. Kinda like tryin' to make a buck at the amp biz...
Oooh, wait... wait... I know this one!Blind Lemon wrote:I am having a problem as we speak with a custom PUP winder. He gets super reviews and the guys on the different forums love his PUPs. I order a set for my LP knowing that it will be 6 to 8 weeks. It's been over 12 and he has my money. He wont return my phone calls or e-mails. I know he's busy and I don't really care about the time it's taking, but poor customer service, there is no NO excuse for it.
What happens is that with best intentions I communicate with the customer. C'mon, who the hell can plan for anything anymore? This economy is all about takin' on too much work fer too little money then gettin' down on me callused knees and prayin' I can get through it all. Anyway, communicate with the customer... they take that as the Carved in Stone absolute date it's gonna get done, get shipped, whatever. Refer back to takin' on too much work fer too little money prayin' I can get through it all. On time means multiple tasks goin' precisely as planned. Anything goes wrong it all goes wrong, multiple schedules go off-schedule. Multiple schedules go off schedule means multiple customers become "Hell's Tabernacle Choir", it's hard to get any work done wif all that screamin' in th' background.
Dumble has it right. Money up front, don't bug me, it gets done when it gets done. Who needs that kind of stress?
Hey Mark, doncha get it? This is a full time job fer some of us. Two days a week fixin' amps and three or four days a week trackin' down rare parts. Imagine that, primo pristine NOS parts all in a pile somewhere ripe fer the pickin'. I don't have to imagine it, that's my back room. You think you're gonna get access to that simply with a flick of yer credit card? Then bitch about it when you don't? That's the value added, stuff built or restored wif primo high grade parts. That stuff don't grow on trees. I wish it did!
Here's the "heads up": We're very lucky to have access to the resources we have access to. Don't bitch about it, all these guys work really hard doin' what they do. Y'all shoulda been at this back in the '70s or '80s wif NO repro parts available, NO internet, NO enthusiast community, none o' that. The good news is that I could buy 50 watt Marshalls down on Saint Mark's for $200 each back then. Whatever.Blind Lemon wrote:At least here we can give each other a heads up. On the forum that I found this guy, they delete all negative post. Though back channels I have found out that this is the norm with this guy. Had I have known................
Produce. Build some stupid part. Contribute. Otherwise you're just a consumer. Any yo-yo can write a check and then bitch about not receiving "good service".
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Blind Lemon
- Posts: 147
- Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2007 3:28 am
- Location: Okie
Re: Parts Order Dissapointment
CJ wrote.
"It's hard for me to take a definitive stance on this one."
Your right in your self assessment. Pick a side, any side.
I really don't care if he, you or me were selling amps, PUPs or widge-its. You take someones money and say your going to do something, you should by god do what you say your going to do or explain it. When it comes right down to it I don't give a shit how bad a business man you are, unless it effects me. I want to support the little guy, and an willing to pay more for quality. Just don't bend me over in the process.......at least without a kiss.
As far as your Heads Up your right and wrong. The same people that are getting in over their heads have access to the Internet as all of us and that fact is effecting a lot more people. And your smart enough to know this and I can't(?) believe you made the statement, but the yo-yo writing the check is the one who is keeping you, me and Joe PUP winder in business.
BL
"It's hard for me to take a definitive stance on this one."
Your right in your self assessment. Pick a side, any side.
I really don't care if he, you or me were selling amps, PUPs or widge-its. You take someones money and say your going to do something, you should by god do what you say your going to do or explain it. When it comes right down to it I don't give a shit how bad a business man you are, unless it effects me. I want to support the little guy, and an willing to pay more for quality. Just don't bend me over in the process.......at least without a kiss.
As far as your Heads Up your right and wrong. The same people that are getting in over their heads have access to the Internet as all of us and that fact is effecting a lot more people. And your smart enough to know this and I can't(?) believe you made the statement, but the yo-yo writing the check is the one who is keeping you, me and Joe PUP winder in business.
BL