Ginger Clone Project Progress (Completed!!!)

[UR12]

She's finally finished. Just have to come up with a name. I have to say that this is a great sounding amp. To compare it to the Express is is like comparing a Vox to a Marshall. I don't mean to imply either amp sounds like a Marshall or Vox, just different. Mark Abbott wrote somewhere that the Express was built for a lead amp and that it does that VERY well. The Liverpool is a more rounded amp and could be used for just about anything. Mark you are 100% correct as usual! I don't have the sustain on the Liverpool that I get from the Express but then I don't get the raw grit from the Express that I get from the Liverpool. I am surprised how much the Liverpool sounds like Richie's 36Watt. The Liverpool hasn't got the power the 36 has, only being 24- 30 watts but it definately nails the 18/36watt watt sound. (must be the EL84s) I have a few other things that I am going to try like adding a trim pot where the 68k now resides to see if I can't dial in a little more sustain like the Express. The Liverpool is very quiet, no hum/buzz/(insert you favorite noise here), just a little hiss when dimed

The 1/2 power switch works great. NO redplating or resistors going into meltdown. Like most of you guys who have the DC 30s or the 36 Watt TMB w/ 1/2 power switch, you know that it doesn't drop in volume that much. But it does change the string attack and generally the way the amp reacts to your guitar. I can see why Ken didn't include it on other models of the Liverpool after Ginger. It's just not something I would call a great feature. I will be installing my Variable Voltage Regulator in this amp before it's all said and done.

The line out feature works great and I can see this as a plus. It functions very well and is connected to the speaker out so you are getting all of the sounds the amp has to offer not just the preamp. This also means that if you alter the volume of the amp you will also alter the volume of the line out. As long as you set your volume on the amp and use your guitar volume there should be no noticeable change in signal volume at the line out jack.

Last Saturday I went to a show where American Minor played and Bud Carroll, their lead player, used the Junkyard Express and one of Richie's 18 Watt 2 x 12 combos. He would use the 18watt for his rythyhm / melody parts and would switch to the Express for his lead parts. This sounded fantastic. I can see how someone would want to build an Express and a Liverpool to do the same thing. Throw in a A/B switch and you would have all anyone would need.

I'll try and post some pics of the completed build later on tonight. Richie and I are also going to try and get some clips made as soon as we can get to the studio.

Thanks to everyone who answered my questions and especially Mark Abbott for his insight and help. Mark you da man!!

[UR12]

Here is the pics of the completed amp.

[img:533:400]http://users.zoominternet.net/~jdhall/hall/DSCN0915.JPG[/img]

[img:533:400]http://users.zoominternet.net/~jdhall/hall/DSCN0911.JPG[/img]

[img:562:750]http://users.zoominternet.net/~jdhall/h ... %20cab.jpg[/img]

[gearhead]

Dana,

Congrats on the Liverpool, it looks great! That's cool that it is a more "rounded" amp.

A little too late for Bunny, eh? Maybe you can auction off the naming rights on ebay, LOL.

[Richie]

Everything Dana said.. the amp is killer! I was excited to see,hear how it sounded and responded.
Has a nice woody tone to it. Played it through my 4x12 cab.
Very smooth and musical sounding... As he said both the express and Liverpool are really great amps that have there own vibe.
I think it would depend on the person on what they like. But i thought this amp was better in alot of ways than the express. I played both a strat and Lp guitar through the amp..liked the LP tone a bit more..its a rock machine. I know its hard to describe how something may sound,or the feel to your playing,because everyone is different or likes different things.. The only way people might know, is if they play through this amp or one of the express amps.
And have another beside it to compare it to. I know i'll be building one of these amps to. All i can say is.. great sounding amp.. And Dana did a great job on building this amp..just look at the pics.

Richie

[LeftyStrat]

Cool. So what primary did you end up using? Is this also using Mooses iron? Did you use the lower B+?

I'm dying to hear clips. It would be great to hear a side by side comparison of the Express and Liverpool.

[Richie]

Dana used 5.2k.. pretty sure.. and the 260-0-260 tap...he'll have the known details..
yes clips would be nice. We still have some things going on and waiting on to come in so we can have a few different amps to try against the exact clones. Plus the head cabs etc.. then try to make a day of recording a bunch of the different amps.

Richie

[Mark]

Dear Dana and Richie

Glad to hear the Liverpool is up and running. I like everyone else would like to hear clips of these two amps. I have used available iron over correct iron in the past, so I'd love to hear the difference that it makes.

If you get time could you try the 6.6K tapping and let us know how it works out?

Glad to help with what I've been able to find out, Richie has helped me a stack with my 18 watt amp, so I was only too happy to try and return the favour.

What else can I say, excellent work Richie and Dana, you too are a real asset to this board!

[UR12]

Thanks again everyone! The amp at the moment is using the 5.2k taps and I am using the 260v winding on the PT. I'll try it soon with 6.6k. With everything wired up and no input to the amp, I am getting 330v b+ with all four tubes and 315v on the screens. With the 1/2 power switch engaged (2 tubes) the B+ rises to 340 v and the screens goes up to 325v. The bias is 11.6 and 11.9. The 11.6 jumps to 12.0 when in 1/2 power mode. I have a 68k in the 3rd gain stage but hope to experiment some in this area. I am using a 1.5k in series with the input to the 3rd stage grid (didn't have a 2.2k). I wired 2 .001 caps in parallel to get the .002 value for the coupling cap. One is ceramic and the other is a 6ps series OD. The layout is a little funky in that the power section, with the grounds from the filter cap and cathode resistor/caps, on the PS board running back to the filter cap bank.There is also a 2.7k resistor on the first preamp tube in series with the vol control return. This is at the tube socket with the shield wire of the shielded cable going to B+ instead of ground at the tube socket side. The presence control is a bit different also per Mark's schematic and this method keeps any DC off of the Presence control and it seems to have a more noticable range using the 25k pot.

I guess Richie and Allyn will be up next for a Pool build as soon as I get them some PS boards made. Mark has sparked my interest in the Rocket by calling it his favorite in another thread. Now I just have to find out what that's all about.

[philmanatee]

Great looking amp! I have a feeling one of these is in the future for me, but I haven't even got all my parts together for an express yet. Looking forward to the clips. Phil

[Doug H]

Looks great!

Looking forward to some clips. I'm working on a 13W ECL86 Liverpool-based amp (rough proto right now) and would like to compare notes.

Doug

[UR12]

Looks great!

Looking forward to some clips. I'm working on a 13W ECL86 Liverpool-based amp (rough proto right now) and would like to compare notes.

Doug

Doug

Be glad to compare notes.....just let me know....Should be interesting build with the ECL86

[Mark]

I wired 2 .001 caps in parallel to get the .002 value for the coupling cap. One is ceramic and the other is a 6ps series OD.

Dear Dana

I just noticed this and I was curious why you used these values?

The Liverpool amps I have seen have used a poly 0.0022uF in parallel with a ceramic 0.002uF cap. This will give the amp a bit more bass response than what you have at the moment, but you've probably a very good reason for not using the combined 0.0047uF value, do tell what were your findings on the matter?

The Rocket is a pretty cool amp, and is great with my Strat, or any Strat for that matter. It had a more poke than the typical AC-30.

[Richie]

I'm not Dana, but i think since that was the starting value from the schematic,and similar to the express..thats where he started. I know he is also going to try changing the 68k resistor..so i'm sure other things will be tried a listened to,on how they change things.. but as i played the amp the other day..it sounded mighty good as it was good bass,and not too thin with the LP or strat. But we all know one little change,can make a difference. I believe he already has his eyes set on the Rocket.
He may have to let me have it to try,since he's got alot of things to do this week..like getting his old porshe speedster out and cleaned up,and bug engines to change in his 65 nothchback.

Richie

[Doug H]

On my ecl86 prototype I think I'm liking .0033u/68k going into the 3rd stg. I'm using a closed-back 1x12 g12h30 and that gives it just a little more bass kick than the .0022u. I suspect with a 4x12 that .0022u would produce plenty of bass. .0047u was just way too woofy for me on the wound strings with the neck pup but YMMV. Also, smaller cap values there help it respond to the guitar volume control - it cleans up a little better and etc. That's a very sensitive area BTW. Small changes yield big tonal differences. It was surprising.

Doug

[UR12]

I wired 2 .001 caps in parallel to get the .002 value for the coupling cap. One is ceramic and the other is a 6ps series OD.

Dear Dana

I just noticed this and I was curious why you used these values?

The Liverpool amps I have seen have used a poly 0.0022uF in parallel with a ceramic 0.002uF cap. This will give the amp a bit more bass response than what you have at the moment, but you've probably a very good reason for not using the combined 0.0047uF value, do tell what were your findings on the matter?

The Rocket is a pretty cool amp, and is great with my Strat, or any Strat for that matter. It had a more poke than the typical AC-30.

Hi Mark

Like Richie surmised, I checked the values range that you talked about in the notes on the schematic. I just started with 2 x .001 to get the .002uf because this is the value that was used in the Express. Having said that, Richie played it through his closed back 4x12 Marshall cab and I had it hooked to my closed back 4x10 Marshall style cab and the Liverpool had plenty of bass for my taste. I am going to change the 68k to a trim pot next to see if I can dial in the gain i'm looking for. Once I get that where I want it I will check some other values for C8 and let you know. I also want to play with the 2.2k on V1 (I have a 1.5k there now). I do like the presence control on the Liverpool better than the one on the Express and may try to switch the Express to this style to see how it sounds. I have a friend with a spectrum analyser and might just have to borrow it and run white/pink noise through the amps to see if I can get an acurate base line before I start changing values. Should give me a good account of the freq response curves of the amps.

You got me interested in the Rocket but I will wait a while on that build. (maybe later in the summer). I want to do some serious tweeking on the Express and the Liverpool and get some clips made before I start a new project.

Doug

Have you played any with the 68k yet? If so what were your thoughts ......