First build?

tribi9 · Post by **tribi9** » Sat Nov 15, 2008 3:06 am

I'd like to build an amp. Just wanted to hear what you guys think? What I'd like to do is a BF Princeton Reverb. (AA1164)

At first I wanted to do a champ but I figure, I don't really want to build a 5F1 as the chassis on a tweed is pretty small to work with. Do you guys think the PR might be a little too tricky for a first time builder?

Cheers

Structo · Post by **Structo** » Sat Nov 15, 2008 3:28 am

How much experience in electronics do you have?

Particularily with tubes?

I would suggest a kit for the first timer, less headaches from trying to source all the parts, chassis and transformers.

Allen is a good way to go for Fender type amps.

There are two AA1164 amps.
The first has a GZ34 rectifier and the second has a 5U4GB.

http://www.schematicheaven.com/fenderam ... aa1164.pdf

http://www.schematicheaven.com/fenderam ... _schem.pdf

tribi9 · Post by **tribi9** » Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:03 am

Well, Ive done some cap jobs on 3 amps plus changed a couple of resistors on one amp and I've been reading up on tubes. I can solder, I got a digital camera and there's a team of experts here.

What is the difference with the 2 rectifiers?

Also I think I saw a decent layout somewhere, because I don't think I could do it out of the schematic alone.

drew · Post by **drew** » Sat Nov 15, 2008 6:36 am

If you're willing to consider a Hoffman-style layout, instead of the original Fender one, there are some great .pdf files here: http://www.el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=4770.0

tribi9 · Post by **tribi9** » Sat Nov 15, 2008 9:12 pm

drew wrote:If you're willing to consider a Hoffman-style layout, instead of the original Fender one, there are some great .pdf files here: http://www.el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=4770.0

What is the difference? Just the part placement? See I look at the layout and I don't think I would be too bad. I realize that it will be difficult and I know there will be parts that I will get stuck... With a nice layout and a schematic I think I might be able to do it.

Cygnus X1 · Post by **Cygnus X1** » Sun Nov 16, 2008 12:45 am

I would stick with a less complicated build for a first time.
Have you considered the 5E2 Tweed princeton?

Or even a 5E3 Tweed Deluxe.
Both great little amps!

tribi9 · Post by **tribi9** » Sun Nov 16, 2008 5:49 am

Cygnus X1 wrote:I would stick with a less complicated build for a first time.
Have you considered the 5E2 Tweed princeton?

Or even a 5E3 Tweed Deluxe.
Both great little amps!

The reason I kinda wanted to go with the blackface is cuz of the extra room to work in the chassis.

Found this one layout for a 5F2-A and it does look a little easier than the BF PR. Learn to crawl before you learn to walk I guess...

http://taweber.powweb.com/store/5f2a_layout.jpg

Cygnus X1 · Post by **Cygnus X1** » Sun Nov 16, 2008 12:33 pm

tribi9 wrote:
The reason I kinda wanted to go with the blackface is cuz of the extra room to work in the chassis.

Found this one layout for a 5F2-A and it does look a little easier than the BF PR. Learn to crawl before you learn to walk I guess...

http://taweber.powweb.com/store/5f2a_layout.jpg

...And if you do a very good job on it, you can flip it for profit for the next build.

Andy Le Blanc · Post by **Andy Le Blanc** » Sun Nov 16, 2008 3:48 pm

What is the difference with the 2 rectifiers?

the GZ34/5AR4 has a peak inverse plate voltage of 1700 and can handle up to 825 ma. per plate....
the 5U4 will handle 1550 peak volts up to 1A
but the 5u4 is more desirable because it has a low plate-supply impedance
makes for a cleaner sweeter amp.....

tubetek · Post by **tubetek** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 12:40 am

The 5U4 recto needs a full 3 amps to power the filament; the 5AR4/GZ34 needs only 1.9 amps (also at 5 volts) to run the filament. The 5AR4 uses an indirectly heated cathode whereas the 5U4 is directly heated; it uses the filament as the cathode. The 5AR4 warms up more gradually; gentler on the tubes. The 5AR4 also provides a higher B+ by virtue of its design. A rule of thumb is roughly:
5AR4 = 1.3x and the 5U4 = 1.2x.
If your power transformer has a 3 amp 5 volt winding you can use either type; try both and see which one sounds best to you. I personally prefer the 5AR4 because of the controlled warm-up and the increased efficiency.
Hope this helps...
Tom

tubetek · Post by **tubetek** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 12:41 am

Duplicate post deleted (FRIGGIN' PHP software!!)

Cygnus X1 · Post by **Cygnus X1** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 12:52 am

Andy Le Blanc wrote:
What is the difference with the 2 rectifiers?
the GZ34/5AR4 has a peak inverse plate voltage of 1700 and can handle up to 825 ma. per plate....
the 5U4 will handle 1550 peak volts up to 1A
but the 5u4 is more desirable because it has a low plate-supply impedance
makes for a cleaner sweeter amp.....

Wouldn't that depend on what sort of tone one is looking for?
I have always preferred the opposite...GZ34 seems superior for just a bit of sag, but not so much that it gets muddy.
The 5U4 seems ok for a nice clean bass, or PA amp.

drew · Post by **drew** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 6:12 am

tribi9 wrote:
drew wrote:If you're willing to consider a Hoffman-style layout, instead of the original Fender one, there are some great .pdf files here: http://www.el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=4770.0

What is the difference? Just the part placement? See I look at the layout and I don't think I would be too bad. I realize that it will be difficult and I know there will be parts that I will get stuck... With a nice layout and a schematic I think I might be able to do it.

Hoffman came up with his own layouts for popular Fender, Marshall and Vox amps; the boards use turrets arrayed in a fixed grid on 1/8" thick G10 fiberglass boards, with the components all parallel or perpendicular to each other (none of the diagonal stuff you see in many amps). Some people like them; some prefer the stock layouts. The layout for the Princeton Reverb is "Hoffman-style," in that it grew out of a thread on the Hoffman forum, with bnwitt doing the drawings.

If you want to use the stock Fender layout, you can refer to the second pages of these:

http://www.ampwares.com/schematics/prin ... _schem.pdf

http://www.ampwares.com/schematics/PRIN ... AB1270.pdf

There's a guy on ebay who sells repro chassis complete with the crappy eyelet boards - do a search for username noojwut

As to whether to build something simpler first, that would make a certain amount of sense; but if what you really want is a Princeton Reverb, go for it.

tribi9 · Post by **tribi9** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 8:00 am

By the sounds of it, If I do build a champ it'll be the one with the GZ34.

I'd really like to build the PR tho' but I just dont know If I might be taking on too much. Maybe if I read up a bit more then go for the PR? that might be a better plan. Im pretty confident I can get a 5F1 96% completed....

That seller on ebay does have nice looking chassis tho! Has anybody bought one? Do u need to drill anything extra to them? If the turret boards are crappy I heard Dave here makes some nice looking boards.

Tubetwang · Post by **Tubetwang** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 1:36 pm

another option is to buy "Building Vacuum Tube Guitar & Bass Amplifiers" (Volume 3) by West Islander Tino Zottola

He'll walk you through 5 builds...AC15...18 Watt...Princeton Reverb...EH150...DR103.

He got me started building tube amps...every aspect of each build is properly explained in a concise and easy to follow way.

His (Volume 1) has the Champ among others.

Wathever you do...you'll have fun...will gain confidence and will be proud and happy to play your amp...

I know my next build will be a Black Face Princeton Reverb...

Great amp!

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