new ceriatone: Overtone His Royal Majesty (HRM) 100/50

[makrisp]

I think the issue is that people come here, contribute NOTHING, and TAKE info posted here to use for financial gain. It is one thing to get info here to become educated and build yourself an amp, it's another to get info here to build amps comercially, and give NOTHING back to the community.

A) C'mon Brandon.......... Give nothing back to the community???????? How about a great amp for a great price without a huge wait........

B) Regarding financial gain............what about every other builder on this site including yourself? Some hefty price tags for those Bludos...........serious profit margin????


Just trying to keep it real.............. Let's stop bashing folks...Nik has contributed immensely for many folks that can't afford a Bludo.''

I may be OFF topic Scott, but pls hear me out...i`m building an amp for a fellow( Ron Ravenscroft, google him) who talked to Mr. Dumble first hand. His quote..GREAT AMP, LOUSY man to deal with. Now this guy is a PHILHARMONIC conductor and pro touring guitarist. He HATES a long wait, and i`ve @ made him HATE ME!! I do mostly Fender mods, an amp or 2 a year is @ it. And @ ALL i can take it seems! Either one, the Ceriatones are being built by a SWEATSHOP in Taiwan at the rate of 100 a day, , or the guy NEVER EVER sleeps.. To build this amp RIGHT takes TIME, you can either get a PRO job, that TAKES more time by a guy who KNOWS his stuf like Brandon/Glaswerks, etc, or get a walmart version from Ceriatone, cuz thats what they truly are, THE TONE is not achieved by every tom dick and hairy, and if and when it does, we are all screwed!!! God bless Nik tho for at least trying to be the walmart of Dumble. No harm intended nor extended Nik!

sincerly, w/thanks to ALL the great guys here at the forum( Scott, Brandon especially!) , plus well u know who you are out there in Cally, who has made my life and uuh amps RICH!!

His amps are not Walmart versions...........not garbage at all......so let's get that straight. His quality, part selection, and overall design are extremely good. He has put a fantastic product out on the market place.......pure value!

Note: Some folks wants want to sell dumble derivative amps and ancillary equipment @ $3500...........dumbleator derivatives @ $750........don't you think that those profit margins especially a dumbleator are too high?

Let's see....if we add up the the parts list and if you buy in bulk..probably no more that $100 in parts and that is soooooooo padded. Couple hours of labor..another 2 X$75 = $150........... $750????? Before you speak, this is not Two Rock or Fuch's that have real shops and "OVERHEAD"

See what I mean...that is what I call a bit too much. You got to be fair to people, especially if your not kicking back a fee to Mr. Dumble.

Just my humble opinion, and we should stop bashing folks as its not good.

[tubedogsmith]

If you can punch and drill a chassis, cut and drill the boards, cut wire and populate all this in two hours you're a very quick fellow. What someones time is worth to them is their decision and the market will bear that out. Lot's of folks have opted for the overseas discount model of things ever since after WWII. I like handcrafted American built items better myself as much as possible. That's a personal choice.
Brandon's whole point here is simple. These boards were started to share info on these hard to know amps. It would appear Nik comes here and takes as much info as possible, turns that info into a full time business and then gives nothing back to this particular community. Do you not see this???

[dobbhill]

My own experience tells me that the labor I would have to charge to build an ODS clone alone is worth more than the price of an assembled OTS.
Value is in the eye (or wallet) of the shopper. I drive a Toyota, others drive BMW, some folks drive KIA, etc. I choose not to judge them by that.
Brandon, Gil, Scott and others don't have to hang out here, they choose to. At this point, they are in the "100% give back to the community" phase. We as a community are fortunate to have them around.
If Bludo's cost $10k, that's his business. If Mamma would let me, I'd be on his waiting list.....and I can/have built my own...I started this journey over 9 years ago.
Excuse me, I have solder fumes to sniff...
D

[makrisp]

If you can punch and drill a chassis, cut and drill the boards, cut wire and populate all this in two hours you're a very quick fellow. What someones time is worth to them is their decision and the market will bear that out. Lot's of folks have opted for the overseas discount model of things ever since after WWII. I like handcrafted American built items better myself as much as possible. That's a personal choice.
Brandon's whole point here is simple. These boards were started to share info on these hard to know amps. It would appear Nik comes here and takes as much info as possible, turns that info into a full time business and then gives nothing back to this particular community. Do you not see this???

I see it very well.......question is how much has Brandon given back to Dr. Dumble?? It seems to be ok for Brandon and others to take from the big man, but not appropriate when others employee the same tactics.

We should not even compare Nik's designs......his are just derivatives..Brandon states exact clones. That to me is where the problem lies.

Remember........what goes around comes around.

[heisthl]

Note: Some folks want to sell dumble derivative amps and ancillary equipment @ $3500...........dumbleator derivatives @ $750........don't you think that those profit margins especially a dumbleator are too high?

Let's see....if we add up the the parts list and if you buy in bulk..probably no more that $100 in parts and that is soooooooo padded. Couple hours of labor..another 2 X$75 = $150........... $750????? Before you speak, this is not Two Rock or Fuch's that have real shops and "OVERHEAD"

See what I mean...that is what I call a bit too much. You got to be fair to people, especially if your not kicking back a fee to Mr. Dumble.

Just my humble opinion, and we should stop bashing folks as its not good.

Parts for the basic buffered effects loop come in at $200 if you buy in quantity. I wish I could make one in 2 hours. I've been doing them 5 to 10 at a time just to make it feel like it's not the loss leader that it is at my introductory price of $300. A loss I chose to take just to get my brand name out there and would never consider as a more established company. The reality is if you're only making 1 $750 is about right.

[tubedogsmith]

If you can punch and drill a chassis, cut and drill the boards, cut wire and populate all this in two hours you're a very quick fellow. What someones time is worth to them is their decision and the market will bear that out. Lot's of folks have opted for the overseas discount model of things ever since after WWII. I like handcrafted American built items better myself as much as possible. That's a personal choice.
Brandon's whole point here is simple. These boards were started to share info on these hard to know amps. It would appear Nik comes here and takes as much info as possible, turns that info into a full time business and then gives nothing back to this particular community. Do you not see this???

I see it very well.......question is how much has Brandon given back to Dr. Dumble?? It seems to be ok for Brandon and others to take from the big man, but not appropriate when others employee the same tactics.

We should not even compare Nik's designs......his are just derivatives..Brandon states exact clones. That to me is where the problem lies.

Remember........what goes around comes around.

That's a different issue. If you want to talk that issue why bring it up in this thread? If you come here to learn you've already decided you're OK with using Dumble's idea's, right? That's what we do here. The issue here is using the info that's been freely shared for financial gain and not contributing to this group. That's this group, here, the one we're posting on.

[tubedogsmith]

If you can punch and drill a chassis, cut and drill the boards, cut wire and populate all this in two hours you're a very quick fellow. What someones time is worth to them is their decision and the market will bear that out. Lot's of folks have opted for the overseas discount model of things ever since after WWII. I like handcrafted American built items better myself as much as possible. That's a personal choice.
Brandon's whole point here is simple. These boards were started to share info on these hard to know amps. It would appear Nik comes here and takes as much info as possible, turns that info into a full time business and then gives nothing back to this particular community. Do you not see this???

I see it very well.......question is how much has Brandon given back to Dr. Dumble?? It seems to be ok for Brandon and others to take from the big man, but not appropriate when others employee the same tactics.

We should not even compare Nik's designs......his are just derivatives..Brandon states exact clones. That to me is where the problem lies.

Remember........what goes around comes around.

That's a different issue. If you want to talk that issue why bring it up in this thread? If you come here to learn you've already decided you're OK with using Dumble's idea's, right? That's what we do here. The issue here is using the info that's been freely shared for financial gain and not contributing to this group. That's this group, here, the one we're posting on.

[ic-racer]

Personally, what I would try to do if I were Brandon, is to market two lines of amps. Keep the premium Bludotone amp as the 'high-end' product and keep the price up there (raise it, even).

But also have a more affordable product. I bet you could do a great #40 type/70s clone with 50W and a gain channel tweaked to the same high 'Bludo' standards as the premium amp. With only 50w Iron and almost 50% fewer parts (ie keep it as just one relay, etc) I wonder if you could make it price competitive with the Ceriatone. Even offer it with no cabinet.

You could even use some clever strategies like offering to buy back any of the lower priced amps (from original owners only) as exchange on sale of a high-end amp.

[makrisp]

If you can punch and drill a chassis, cut and drill the boards, cut wire and populate all this in two hours you're a very quick fellow. What someones time is worth to them is their decision and the market will bear that out. Lot's of folks have opted for the overseas discount model of things ever since after WWII. I like handcrafted American built items better myself as much as possible. That's a personal choice.
Brandon's whole point here is simple. These boards were started to share info on these hard to know amps. It would appear Nik comes here and takes as much info as possible, turns that info into a full time business and then gives nothing back to this particular community. Do you not see this???

I see it very well.......question is how much has Brandon given back to Dr. Dumble?? It seems to be ok for Brandon and others to take from the big man, but not appropriate when others employee the same tactics.

We should not even compare Nik's designs......his are just derivatives..Brandon states exact clones. That to me is where the problem lies.

Remember........what goes around comes around.

That's a different issue. If you want to talk that issue why bring it up in this thread? If you come here to learn you've already decided you're OK with using Dumble's idea's, right? That's what we do here. The issue here is using the info that's been freely shared for financial gain and not contributing to this group. That's this group, here, the one we're posting on.

Note: My initial comments were and still are regarding the issue of bashing Nik...nothing more nothing less. I am not the one bashing Nik...... so please let's keep it real.

[CaseyJones]

Regarding financial gain............what about every other builder on this site including yourself? Some hefty price tags for those Bludos...........serious profit margin????!!

I can tell by your comments that you've never built anything. If you did you'd know how much work it is, how much thought and effort it takes to get it right.

Let's stop bashing folks...Nik has contributed immensely for many folks that can't afford a Bludo.'' His amps are not Walmart versions...........not garbage at all......so let's get that straight. His quality, part selection, and overall design are extremely good. He has put a fantastic product out on the market place.......pure value!

That's pure BS. I can tell you're a consumer not a builder. A consumer not a producer. Builders cook, consumers eat. Builders produce food, consumers produce excrement. Chew on that analogy.

Let's cut through the bullshit here... if a certain Amp Garage member hadn't approached Nik about manufacturing a Dumble clone to begin with the Malaysian connection would be at least a year behind everyone else and not nearly as accurate a replica. Once the basic building blocks are in place it's simply a matter of upgrading the clone as more complete information becomes available. Where do you suppose that information comes from?

You get what you pay for. A handwired amp built with parts selected for quality and tone built right here in the good ol' U.S. of A. is about as close to the real thing as you're gonna get without A) trackin' down ol' H.A. hisself, shovin' wads o' cash in his general direction and beggin' him to build you a real up to the minute Holy Rollin' in Money or B) trackin' down one of the couple hundred real ones, hopin' it's a version you want, then hopin' that second mortgage on the condo flies so you can afford it.

If y'all don't know the difference between really nice U.S. made parts like the old Twin transformers and NOS tube sockets may I politely direct ya to Mall-Wart... "Pay less, live better". As long as you're o.k. wif mixin' yer booze wif Sam's Club rather than good ol' Coca-cola...

I don't think ol' H.A. is skippin' many meals in any case. At a certain point imitation is indeed the most sincere form of flattery. The real thing is the real thing and a copy is a copy. Beyond that it's just a matter of figurin' out which copies really represent an accurate replica of the real deal. The intangible is quality. That last 5% takes as much effort as the first 95%. That's the difference and that's what you're payin' for.

But also have a more affordable product. I bet you could do a great #40 type/70s clone with 50W and a gain channel tweaked to the same high 'Bludo' standards as the premium amp. With only 50w Iron and almost 50% fewer parts (ie keep it as just one relay, etc) I wonder if you could make it price competitive with the Ceriatone. Even offer it with no cabinet.

You could even use some clever strategies like offering to buy back any of the lower priced amps (from original owners only) as exchange on sale of a high-end amp.

Goin' toe to toe wif bottomfeeders is a slide down a slippery slope. Stick to yer guns, never compromise on quality. Build it and they will come!

Plenty o' room at the bottom. There's always some lowlife who will use cheaper parts and cut corners to lower the bar on the bottom line. How much can you compromise before it becomes an unacceptable compromise? It's retrograde motion, it works out bein' more work for less dough. No one wins in the long run. We'll end up with glowing stories of "the good ol' days", back when we built good stuff wif good parts and made money at it.

[makrisp]

Regarding financial gain............what about every other builder on this site including yourself? Some hefty price tags for those Bludos...........serious profit margin????!!

I can tell by your comments that you've never built anything. If you did you'd know how much work it is, how much thought and effort it takes to get it right.

Let's stop bashing folks...Nik has contributed immensely for many folks that can't afford a Bludo.'' His amps are not Walmart versions...........not garbage at all......so let's get that straight. His quality, part selection, and overall design are extremely good. He has put a fantastic product out on the market place.......pure value!

That's pure BS. I can tell you're a consumer not a builder. A consumer not a producer. Builders cook, consumers eat. Builders produce food, consumers produce excrement. Chew on that analogy.

Let's cut through the bullshit here... if a certain Amp Garage member hadn't approached Nik about manufacturing a Dumble clone to begin with the Malaysian connection would be at least a year behind everyone else and not nearly as accurate a replica. Once the basic building blocks are in place it's simply a matter of upgrading the clone as more complete information becomes available. Where do you suppose that information comes from?

You get what you pay for. A handwired amp built with parts selected for quality and tone built right here in the good ol' U.S. of A. is about as close to the real thing as you're gonna get without A) trackin' down ol' H.A. hisself, shovin' wads o' cash in his general direction and beggin' him to build you a real up to the minute Holy Rollin' in Money or B) trackin' down one of the couple hundred real ones, hopin' it's a version you want, then hopin' that second mortgage on the condo flies so you can afford it.

If y'all don't know the difference between really nice U.S. made parts like the old Twin transformers and NOS tube sockets may I politely direct ya to Mall-Wart... "Pay less, live better". As long as you're o.k. wif mixin' yer booze wif Sam's Club rather than good ol' Coca-cola...

I don't think ol' H.A. is skippin' many meals in any case. At a certain point imitation is indeed the most sincere form of flattery. The real thing is the real thing and a copy is a copy. Beyond that it's just a matter of figurin' out which copies really represent an accurate replica of the real deal. The intangible is quality. That last 5% takes as much effort as the first 95%. That's the difference and that's what you're payin' for.

But also have a more affordable product. I bet you could do a great #40 type/70s clone with 50W and a gain channel tweaked to the same high 'Bludo' standards as the premium amp. With only 50w Iron and almost 50% fewer parts (ie keep it as just one relay, etc) I wonder if you could make it price competitive with the Ceriatone. Even offer it with no cabinet.

You could even use some clever strategies like offering to buy back any of the lower priced amps (from original owners only) as exchange on sale of a high-end amp.

Goin' toe to toe wif bottomfeeders is a slide down a slippery slope. Stick to yer guns, never compromise on quality. Build it and they will come!

Plenty o' room at the bottom. There's always some lowlife who will use cheaper parts and cut corners to lower the bar on the bottom line. How much can you compromise before it becomes an unacceptable compromise? It's retrograde motion, it works out bein' more work for less dough. No one wins in the long run. We'll end up with glowing stories of "the good ol' days", back when we built good stuff wif good parts and made money at it.

Mr. Casey Jones,

Wrong again with your judgments!

A) I have been building, repairing, modding since the late 80's. Do not do it as much as I would like, only about one dozen folks is what I can handle. Family first!

B) I do not like to rip people off. It's a matter of character and taste, and many folks in the Boston area can attest to that.

C) Again, I chimed into this thread because folks like Brandon and others were bashing Nik. Folks should stop the bashing......That is all!

[mcinku]

I really don't want to be in the middle of this but doesn't posting layouts and all those pictures of the amp guts count as sharing as well.
Maybe Nik does not have the time to hang out here and share things...
the guy is busy with building all those amps after all.

[JamesO]

Brandon hasn't profited a cent from me, even though he's spent time answering my phone calls and PM's to help me complete the Funk chassis build I bought second hand from someone else.

This conversation is too much.

[ayan]

Let's see....if we add up the the parts list and if you buy in bulk..probably no more that $100 in parts and that is soooooooo padded. Couple hours of labor..another 2 X$75 = $150........... $750????? Before you speak, this is not Two Rock or Fuch's that have real shops and "OVERHEAD"

See what I mean...that is what I call a bit too much. You got to be fair to people, especially if your not kicking back a fee to Mr. Dumble.

Just my humble opinion, and we should stop bashing folks as its not good.

OK, here is an offer for you. You have seen -- and if not, do a quick search -- what I build. Take a look at my latest Dumbleator clone in a rercent thread, do an inventory of the parts and procure them. Build the mofo as I did and if you end up spending $100 in parts and two hours to replicate it, I will give you for free and with no B.S. one of my amps -- yes, the ones I've posted pictures of here through the years. Needless to say, your Dumbleator clone must look and sound the part for this offer to he honored by me.

Right off the bat, in order for you to not blow the time and money allocated as per your own estimate, you will need some luck with the tube(s) you purchase... I spend about as much as you will building the Dumbleator clone just picking the right tube for it, and I may go through a couple before I find one I like, which means you might spend about $30 just picking the right 12AX7.

Should you fail in your attempt, I expect nothing back from you, either on my behalf or anyone else's. If you choose to decline the offer, let me know and I will post an addendum to this.

Respectfully,

Gil

[ayan]

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