Funk's D'lator and the Kleinulator

[Steven_nl]

Has anyone compared the two? What's your verdict?

Thanks

Steven

[heisthl]

There's a thread somewhere on the gear page where Jack Zucker talks about this.

[Steven_nl]

he uses the Red Plate (yours?) now right?

[heisthl]

Yes - but he liked the Klein box too.

[Steven_nl]

yeah I know. He likes yours more.

Question is: Is yours the same as the Dumble version and is it the same as Funk's version? I ask this because Funks version is documented on the other forum and I might ask a tech here in Holland to make me one.

Yours looks cool too but it would be expensive to have it shipped to Holand and to pay inport tax + VAT. Besides it's not 220V and it's not 19 inch.

[Steven_nl]

I showed the tech the schematics. He's unbiased (doesn't know the Dumbleator)
He made some interesting remarks
- this will change your sound
- The wires between pots and jacks should be 10 cm long max
- the 10M resistors and the .22uF seem useless

Obviously I was curious to post his opinion here.
I have no technical knowledge whatsoever. I'm only interested in getting a good sound and trying to understand the reason for this type of FX Loop

(I slowly get the feeling this is a loop which adds some "gain" and EQ)

[heisthl]

Funk's version is a more faithful replication of a "real" one. Sound wise they are nearly equivalent with 2 circuit differences:
1. I use 1k5/25uf on the recovery cathode instead of 1k3/47uf
2. I don't incorporate the Return attenuation control.

His build quality(using PCB's) and quality of parts are better as well, I'm doing eylet board with quite a few Xicon MPPs mixed in with the Orange Drop PS series and using Xicon filter caps.

[heisthl]

I showed the tech the schematics. He's unbiased (doesn't know the Dumbleator)
He made some interesting remarks
- this will change your sound
- The wires between pots and jacks should be 10 cm long max
- the 10M resistors and the .22uF seem useless

Obviously I was curious to post his opinion here.
I have no technical knowledge whatsoever. I'm only interested in getting a good sound and trying to understand the reason for this type of FX Loop

(I slowly get the feeling this is a loop which adds some "gain" and EQ)

Just nod your head and have him build it like the schematic. You will make a believer out of him

[Funkalicousgroove]

If you are going to go to the trouble to have one built might as well go with the real deal, if you are going to buy one the Kleinulator is smaller, lighter to ship, and less expensive.

[Funkalicousgroove]

Funk's version is a more faithful replication of a "real" one. Sound wise they are nearly equivalent with 2 circuit differences:
1. I use 1k5/25uf on the recovery cathode instead of 1k3/47uf
2. I don't incorporate the Return attenuation control.

His build quality(using PCB's) and quality of parts are better as well, I'm doing eylet board with quite a few Xicon MPPs mixed in with the Orange Drop PS series and using Xicon filter caps.

I use xicon and nichicon filter caps, and 225p orange drops. Nothing wrong with the xicon MPP either. I've been using alot of NTE mylar lateley, and I quit using the RN65 plate resistors because I can't hear the difference.

All my stuff thus far is eyelet board, I'm just now making the switch to PCB.

[kleinm]

Has anyone compared the two? What's your verdict?

Thanks

Steven

I've compared the Klein-ulator (my design ) to a tube-driven Dumble-ator I built using some of Brandon's great parts and his gracious tutorial. My Dumble-ator wasn't a "professional" unit, but a close approximation.

What would you like to know specifically?

To me, the differences are actually subtle, as Jack mentioned numerous times on his posts on TGP. If I had to describe the difference, I'd say the Klein-ulator is a little cleaner on the high end and lower noise, and the real deal has a little more tube compression and maybe slightly warmer.

Jack told me that his tube Red Plate got warmer with longer cable interconnects, whereas the Klein-ulator didn't get loaded down as much. He preferred the extra "smoothing" the long cables added, and decided to stick with the Red Plate. I used short interconnects in my testing and tuning, so I never caught this.

To be honest, if you want a real Dumble-ator do something like that...because if that is what you want, nothing else will make you as content with your purchase. There is definitely a certain amount of sex appeal in that design, no doubt about it. No matter how much we may try to convince ourselves otherwise, sometimes its psychologically difficult to put a solid-state device between our preamp and poweramp. I understand that.

If you're not set on a real Dumble-ator design, both will make you happy I think. If money is tight, space is an issue, or you like to venture off the beaten path, a Klein-ulator would be a viable option. I don't think you'll go wrong either way.

Not to go off on a tangent, but I really want to clarify this. The Klein-ulator was NEVER meant to replace its tube-driven godfather. I think of it just as another option. I think comparing the two trying to find the "best" one misses the point. They have the same design parameters and sculpting, so of course they will behave similarly in some respects. They use different component types, so they will of course behave differently in some respects. Let the strengths of each and your particular needs dictate your purchase, rather than which is "better" or "worse".

HTH.

[Steven_nl]

Thanks for the replys guys.
Hi again Mike

I was just curious what the difference in sound is. I'm not someone who gets all a*** about vintage stuff. I do want to get the best sound I can get (within reason $$). When it boils down to it I have put a FET deveice in the chain of an all tube amp. Nothing wrong with that but I just want to find out if there's a real difference in sound.
The only thing I don't like about my Kleinulator is that fact that it's not 19 inch.

I started out looking at the Kleinulator as a way to deal with my effects. If you look at the interview with Robben Ford he says the Dumbleator is used to make his effects work. He doesn't say anything about the unit having an impact on his sound as well. So that was my starting point. Now I know it has a big influence on the sound. So that's why I was wondering if a tube version would sound better. And, being Dutch, how much it would cost to get one