Better cleans

[greiswig]

All,

My Bad Cat amp has some of the best cleans I've used, and the circuit is really simple. (See diagram) For one thing, it has no tone stack. For another, it uses one half of a 12AX7.

I've never been as satisfied with the cleans on my D'Lite.

Dumb(le) question: has anyone tried to do the clean channel on a D-style amp more like this, reserving V1b and the tone stack for only the OD section? Would the clean channel have enough volume to keep up?

[heisthl]

I can't make out the values in that attachment.

[greiswig]

I can see why...(edited)

[dogears]

Try doing the Bluesmaster front end. Lower your plates to something like 180K/120K. Reduce CL2 to .02uf Change tonestack to the Bluesmaster stack. Use 4.7uf on both CL1 and CL2. You may really dig the cleans. Use the Megaboost btw.... The boosted cleans are something to behold....

All,

My Bad Cat amp has some of the best cleans I've used, and the circuit is really simple. (See diagram) For one thing, it has no tone stack. For another, it uses one half of a 12AX7.

I've never been as satisfied with the cleans on my D'Lite.

Dumb(le) question: has anyone tried to do the clean channel on a D-style amp more like this, reserving V1b and the tone stack for only the OD section? Would the clean channel have enough volume to keep up?

[Bob-I]

Is your Badcat EL-84's? I'd doubt if you'll get the voltage swing needed for 6L6's or EL-34's with a single gain stage like this.

In PAB mode there's no tone stack so I'd guess that you could tweak the preamp to get the type of loss less clean gain you want.

I built a 3 channel amp using an extra 12AX7 so that I could tweak the values to get a bright clean more like a Fender than Dumble. It's only 3-4 years old so I'm still tweaking it

[jaysg]

Mine's built into a Fender, so there's a BF clean channel.

[greiswig]

Is your Badcat EL-84's? I'd doubt if you'll get the voltage swing needed for 6L6's or EL-34's with a single gain stage like this.

In PAB mode there's no tone stack so I'd guess that you could tweak the preamp to get the type of loss less clean gain you want.

I built a 3 channel amp using an extra 12AX7 so that I could tweak the values to get a bright clean more like a Fender than Dumble. It's only 3-4 years old so I'm still tweaking it

The Bad Cat is actually EL-34s. Sounds like your third channel is more what I'm after, or what Dogears suggests...

[ryanf]

So there are no tone controls at all for your clean channel?

[greiswig]

So there are no tone controls at all for your clean channel?

Not on the Bad Cat, except for the presence (what they call "brilliance"). At first I thought that was a real limitation, but it really sounds good.

[Luthierwnc]

This may be wandering slightly but I have had good results with brilliance/cuts on the PI for tone. This especially works well with pentode front-ends. You can use a Baxandall tone circuit but the cut works well.

One of my favorite tones is an EF86 with the coupling cap selector and a hint of cut using a .0022 cap into a 250k pot after the PI couplers. This is a DC30 style except only 2 EL84's. The other channel is your usual TMB set-up which is a worthy sound too. The pentode side reverses phase one less time than the cathode follower side so you feed both halves of the inverter. Over a couple of British 12's you can make a lot of noise for 14 watts.

Skip

[ontariomaximus]

I agree that simple Bad Cat circuit sounds good. It is feeding one side of the LTPI phase inverter then EL34's cathode bias, near Class A. I wonder what fixed bias would sound like with a little feedback?

[greiswig]

I agree that simple Bad Cat circuit sounds good. It is feeding one side of the LTPI phase inverter then EL34's cathode bias, near Class A. I wonder what fixed bias would sound like with a little feedback?

Good point: the Bad Cat has no NFB. I can try that in my D'Lite and see what the cleans sound like, but I know I do NOT like the overdrive without a lot of NFB.

[Fischerman]

That preamp in the Bad Cat is essentially a Vox AC30 Normal channel but into 2xEL34 instead of 4xEL84. I think it can provide enough drive for EL34s with the right PI values. The Return stage in a D'lator can take a 'guitar level' signal and feed it to the PI with enough drive to achieve full power so I see no reason why a guitar level signal into that gain stage wouldn't as well (especially with EL34s).

But IMO the gorgeous clean tone you are getting from your Bad Cat is a sum of all the parts...and that cathode-biased/no NFB power section is a big part of it. IMO, it's just a different tone and not really what the ODS clean is suited for. It's actually a 'dirtier' clean than the Dumble/Fender clean but due to the circuit (mainly the no NFB) it breaks-up VERY gradually where a NFB amp will have a much more abrupt jump from clean to dirty. I think the Vox clean and the Fender clean are two awesome clean tones (they are my favorites and I love clean tones) but they are different animals.

Just my 2 cents. I try to just let amps (and guitars too) be what they wanna be and my ODS clean wants to be Fender-like.