Best 12" speaker for ODS and Open or Closed-Back Cab

[drpastorbob]

Now that I have the amp working, I'm looking for the best speaker/cab combo. I have a bad back and would like to stick to a single-12 cabinet. The amp is going into a head cab. I noticed Larry Carlton uses a single-12, but Robben Ford uses 2-12s.

Any thoughts?

Thanks for the help.

[jaysg]

1) 50W or 100W?
2) What tones are you into?

An EV12L is a hefty speaker, but will work fine for a 100W amp....iff you're going for the Larry Carlton/Steely Dan sound.

Celestions are great too. Based on comments here, I rolled the dice and bought the Heritage G1265. I am very pleased with it. I'm looking for a less smooth sound. A 100W amp can kill a 1-12" with that speaker...but a 2-12" will take it fairly well.

[drpastorbob]

I'm using 2 6L6s (30-50W) and am looking for a bit more of an edgy tone. I prefer Robben Ford's sound over Larry Carlton's, although both are great. I'm more of a blues player now than anything. I'm looking for a good chime with nice harmonics. I understand Robben uses the Celestion Super 65.

I also am assuming that most of you guys have been through the trials and your advice can save me some time and hopefully money in selecting speakers.

[Bob-I]

I'm using 2 6L6s (30-50W) and am looking for a bit more of an edgy tone. I prefer Robben Ford's sound over Larry Carlton's, although both are great. I'm more of a blues player now than anything. I'm looking for a good chime with nice harmonics. I understand Robben uses the Celestion Super 65.

Yes, but only the original 12-65, not the re-issue.

I also am assuming that most of you guys have been through the trials and your advice can save me some time and hopefully money in selecting speakers.

Yes, so do a search and you'll leave with your head spinning.

[jaysg]

Yes, so do a search and you'll leave with your head spinning.

No kidding. Do you think the reissue will do it for drpastorbob? I think it will.

The whole seach for the grail among new Eminence speakers became too much for me. Was there ever much of a conclusion there?

[tonejunkie]

I searched for a while, 2 different Webbers, 4 different Eminence, and settled on a Celestion G12-65 for both my HRM and Non-HRM amps. This is also in 2-12 and 1x12 situations.

[Bob-I]

Ask 4 people, you'll get 4 different opinions.

I like what I've heard from dogear's 12-65's. I have 3 cabinets that I like, one has an Emi Tonker and a Swamp Thang, another has warehousespeakers.com vintage and lead combo and the third is a closed back EVM15L.

The one's that didn't work for me are Weber brittish series (sounds ok in a Marshall style) a closed back Emi Red White and Blues (better in the open back), the 4x10 in my Super Reverb clone, a Jensen C12N and a few others.

[RJ Guitars]

Has anyone tried the 12" Celestion Century with the Neodymium Magnet? I've heard of good results with these speakers in other amp builds, just wondering if anyone has tested them out in an ODS?

If they sound good, the under 4 lb. overall weight is a real added bonus.

http://professional.celestion.com/guita ... l.asp?ID=1

rj

[stelligan]

Have been through many speakers and cabs with a 2 x 6L6 non HRM build in the last year. If you are looking for more of a RF tone - IMHO you would do well with Celestion G1265, Classic Lead 80, or an Eminence RWB. The G1265 seems better all around for me in that the clean tone is very well balanced and broad spectrum. OD can sound a tad crispy in the high end if your amp has some fizz up there. The RWB does well in OD and can tame that raspy character if it's present. Not nearly as neutral - kind of upper mid heavy with not as much high end. My preference is a 2 x 12 oval hole open back - 1 hole with an EV12L or Delta Pro 12A and the other with a bright speaker that brings out that brash high end in the OD. CL80 or G1265. I think Funk digs a Tonker with a Swamp Thing. If you don't want to lug a 2 X 12 - G1265, Classic Lead 80, RWB, or EV12L would be my order of preference with what I've tried for a RF tone. The EV12L is hands down the speaker for a LC tone IMHO. You may try a Tonker or Tonkerlite(neodynium). I have played a Tonkerlite briefly in one of heisthl's OD builds and it kicked ass and was VERY light. There is a Sergio thread about speakers going right now https://tubeamparchive.com/viewtopic.php?t=4737 and many others to search on. Many opinions and these are - of course - just mine from my experience which is nowhere near that of many other forumites. Happy hunting - or should I say - happy buying, soldering, screwing, listening, un-screwing, unsoldering, selling, buying, soldering........

[Fischerman]

Question: It seems that the two speakers that get the nod most often for ODS amps is the EVM12L and the Celestion Heritage G1265. Do these two speakers sound anything alike? I'm not sure why but I suspect they don't which seems a bit strange that two such dissimilar sounding speakers would be the top two. Anybody have an explanation for this (other than; "They just sound better!":lol:)?

[stelligan]

Question: It seems that the two speakers that get the nod most often for ODS amps is the EVM12L and the Celestion Heritage G1265. Do these two speakers sound anything alike? I'm not sure why but I suspect they don't which seems a bit strange that two such dissimilar sounding speakers would be the top two. Anybody have an explanation for this (other than; "They just sound better!":lol:)?

No, they do not sound all that similar. If I were to venture a theory, it would be the overall match of the the speakers to the varied tones these amps create - clean, OD, OD+PAB, mid shift engaged, etc.. For me - I love the big bass clean tone of the EV12L and it still does a great job with the OD tone, then an OK job with OD + PAB. I like the G1265 for the same reasons, but in inverse order. The goal for me was to find a speaker that covered all that ground on the gig. A lot to ask of one cone. If I were to just use the amp in the studio with no need to channel switch - I would use a 12L for the cleans and a G1265 for OD. Again - just my 2 cents YMMV.

[RJ Guitars]

Question: It seems that the two speakers that get the nod most often for ODS amps is the EVM12L and the Celestion Heritage G1265. Do these two speakers sound anything alike ?

No, they do not sound all that similar... If you don't want to lug a 2 X 12 - G1265, Classic Lead 80, RWB, or EV12L would be my order of preference with what I've tried for a RF tone. The EV12L is hands down the speaker for a LC tone IMHO. You may try a Tonker or Tonkerlite (neodynium). I have played a Tonkerlite briefly in one of heisthl's OD builds and it kicked ass and was VERY light... I would use a 12L for the cleans and a G1265 for OD...

Hope I haven't taken these quotes completely out of context. I'm trying to distill this down to an option that doesn't require mega cash and getting lucky on EBAY... then above that, is it possible to knock ten pounds off the answer by going with a Neodymium or maybe an alnico magnet speaker?

There are two other speaker threads going - one on 2-12 combinations and the 2nd on cabinet design so they don't shed a lot of light on the single speaker and open back combination.

For a single speaker and open back combination, if you consider only tone, with cost and weight as no consequence, the general consensus is something like:

1) Celestion G1265
2) EV12L

Honorable mention goes to:
Classic lead 80 - RWB - Tonker - TonkerLite

I don't see much about alnico speakers or the various neodymiums - I know Jensen, Eminence, and Celestion all have the neodymiums out there but it doesn't appear like they have been used very often in an ODS single hole open back? Let me know if you know differently. I plan to give one of them a try in the not so distant future.

rj

[stelligan]

RJ Guitars,

That has been my experience and I am pretty settled and happy. I should clarify that the Warehouse Speakers CL80 clone that is now called their "British Lead" speaker I actually preferred over the Celestion Classic Lead I tried. http://warehousespeakers.com/proddetail ... ishLead_12
I would give that a hands down bang for the buck award if you spend most of your time in OD. It does a great job on it's own, but was a bit nasal out of the box. I own one that has changed somewhat dramatically over time into a favorite lead voice speaker. My overall tone bang for the buck award goes to G12-65 followed closely by the RWB(great price for what you get). Here is a clip with a 2 x 6L6 HRM combo with a RWB. Strat cleans - Squire Espirit and Fender Strat on lead tones.
http://www.jonesin.org/Dave/lilbitHRM2.mp3

For those just coming up to this speaker hunting thing, here is a rough price guide to the speakers I have mentioned, owned, and tried.

$195 EV-12L
$180 G12-65
$130 Celestion Classic Lead 80
$105 Delta Pro 12-A
$90 Cannabis Rex, Tonkerlite
$75 Red White & Blues
$45 Warehouse "British Lead"

IMHO it is nearly a you get what you pay for kind of thing with a couple exceptions. For me - the RWB and British Lead speakers outperform some of those I've tried in the $90 to $105 range when it comes to OD tones. In the cleans department they rank - for me - as priced. Overall favorite if the amp is dialed in with no fizzy top end is G12-65. It can reveal things in the high end you did not know were there - good and bad. Things get very difficult in the $90 range because of the many choices. My search is by no means exhaustive - I'm just exhausted. I am dying to try a Swamp Thang and Tonker, but a guy has to stop somewhere - doesn't he?

[Luthierwnc]

I've tried lots of speaker combinations and frankly, most of them sound pretty good. That doesn't include listening to a Vintage 30 having been warned against them in this application and not liking them much generally. I also didn't care for the one 2X12 Celestion closed-back cab I heard -- dunno the speakers -- probably something recent.

I've got a G12-65, Swamp Thang, EVM-12L and Scumback H55 in various arrangements and like them all. Knowing what I now know, I don't think D's would work particularly well with AlNiCo's unless it was something like an SRO. AlNiCo's add a lot of their own flavor which might interfere with what you worked so hard for in the amp build. As a frame of reference, I really like tweeds and prefer AlNiCo's there.

RJ, if I had ever tried the neo magnets, I'd tell ya. If it is any comfort, I use deep open-back (or Thiele-ported) 1X12's. Even the EV is managable although it does mean an extra trip. Good luck, Skip

[jaysg]

Knowing what I now know, I don't think D's would work particularly well with AlNiCo's unless it was something like an SRO.

Good point. Before the EV-12L was available, HAD used Altec 417s. There are three types of those with large...heavy...Alnico magnets. The 75W version is the 417-8C (used by Santana) and there are a couple 100W versions -- 417-8H (removable cover) and 417-8H II (no cover, painted black). I don't know if HAD moved to EV because the Altecs were discontinued or before, because he preferred them.