63 Blackface Deluxe ideas

[ampgeek]

Here it is!

http://www.tpub.com/neets/book2/3g.htm


Dave O.

[Firestorm]

I've been inside about a hundred Fender amps from every period and have seen some pretty strange things, but Ive never seen those caps in a blackface. They look like old silver micas and they really "shouldn't" be there. The brown Deluxe could have had 500pf silver micas in its single-knob tone circuit, but the blackface models should have 250pf ceramic treble caps connected directly to the junction of the 100K plate resistor and the 100K slope resistor. The lead of the slope resistor should run under the board to the eyelet where the ceramic caps goes. Are those ceramic caps 250pf or something else?
I can't quite make out the date codes on the bypass caps, but based on the serial number, this looks like a very early model -- like August 1963. It's possible that one of the Fender ladies wasn't quite up to speed on the new build. Or maybe Fender didn't have any 250pf caps on hand that day and decided to use some of the old 500pf micas in series with 500pf ceramics. I'm eager to know what you find.

[Structo]

On the Fender Field Guide it would appear yours is the Black Face Deluxe.
These only came with Tremolo.

[Firestorm]

To Tom's (Structo's) point, if you do decide to try finding a conventional replacement cab for the amp, bear in mind that the Deluxe Reverb and the non-reverb Deluxe (which you have) have different sized chassis'.

[Johnhenry]

Thank's Dave, I've owned and repaired a bunch of tweed, Transistion amps and the cap's were a common thing to see, I thought they sorta looked like Silver Mica, more common to the tweed amps of the 50's, but i have seen them in a few early 60's amp's, , My Fav Bassman head is a White 1960 and i have the 2X12 cab for it, when i first looked at this amp I was totally supprised, to my Delight it was almost a copy of the 59 Tweed circuit wize, .02 cap's , 250 PF's on the tone stack and .02 cap's on the PI, it's one of the best sounding head's i had the pleasure to call ( MINE )
I would try to keep it as Orig as possible Chassis wize, it's your Delight to be able to build it as a Combo or a Head !
Those silver Micas should still be good for the go, Glad you Scored it, I see you know what your doin, Bravo on the Variac, I bet it will fire on up, hope so anyway, Let us know how good it sound's you LUCKEY DAWG,
Just remember this, They were not a lot of those baby's made back in the good old day's, and you own 1 !
Johnhenry

[ampgeek]

Oh...my...god!!! I am totally floored with the tone of this amp. Now I know what everybody means when they talk about that Blackface tone and feel! This is, no doubt, a keeper!

It came up flawlessly. Quiet as a mouse, no hissing and the trem is as smooth as silk with lots of useable range. I had to lift the death cap as I felt a little tingle when I touched the trannies to see if they were running cool about half way along the "staged" power up.

I first plugged it into a 1X12 Avatar partial open back loaded with a G12-65 (my Dlite cab) and wasn't all that impressed.

I plugged it into my homegrown 2X12" Bassman mutation combo (Weber alnico Bluedog and alnico Silverbell) and, after scraping my jaw off of the floor, I realized that I was in love. Sounds great with both my 71 Les Paul Deluxe and a new'ish Hghwy 41 strat with custom 69 PU's.

Here is the cab/combo that is working really well with it:

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2nm1vd5&s=3

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2928vis&s=3


The domino cap code is: White-Green-Black//Brown-Black-Brown and it is followed by a ceramic looking type labeled 250 and a circled M. Identical configuration for both.

I jotted down the transformer codes but don't have them right at hand at the moment. All three indicated a 1963 vintage though.

Now...I should have that Jag back from the luthier momentarily. Can't wait to hear how that sounds with it.

Thanks for all of your help and interest gentlemen! Just let me know if there is anything that ya'll would like me to check/photo/report.

I will post up the final configuration when I decide how to package it. Gotta belive that alnico type speakers are the way to go with this one. Any thoughts to share on that?

Cheers,
Dave O.

P.S. Go UConn Huskies!! I am a native NH'ite and have always been a fan of their basketball program.

[RHGraham]

Oh...my...god!!! I am totally floored with the tone of this amp. Now I know what everybody means when they talk about that Blackface tone and feel! This is, no doubt, a keeper!
.

Yup, told ya so...

I liked it best cranked right up to the top.

I liked mine best with a tight 2X12, but I can't remember what emi's I had in it.
One of the dumbest things I ever did was sell by deluxe.

Congrats on the score! Glad it's working.

[benoit]

Here it is!

http://www.tpub.com/neets/book2/3g.htm


Dave O.

Are these worth saving? I've got an old organ amp with a bunch of 'em (the mica ones, not the paper)

[Johnhenry]

HotDog, Dave, I was hopin your reaction to the Delux would be a good one
Those old silver mica's sound Good to me, to me they are worth havin around if you got them !
Johnhenry

[Firestorm]

The domino cap code is: White-Green-Black//Brown-Black-Brown and it is followed by a ceramic looking type labeled 250 and a circled M. Identical configuration for both.

So it looks like you've got 500pf micas in series with 250pf ceramics for a net capacitance of 166.7. That will have really, really, really subtle effect on the tonestack. So was it a mistake? An experiment? It's not like Fender would deliberately spend money on two components when one would do.

Benoit -- Them caps is worth keeping, if only to restore old amps.

[BluzMike]

Looks like the Jag is a 1964. I did learn that my friend ordered it from the factory with a Jazz Master neck. Sez his short, stubby fingers couldn't squeeze the fatter Jag neck. Cool that the factory put the Jag decal on it!

The neck on your Jaguar is its original and also a standard version. 1 is the part code for Jaguar. Very nice slab cut neck with clay dots on an obviously excellent condition instrument with original case. This was a fantastic buy, congrats!

Very nice first year bf Deluxe! You might consider restoring the chopped cabinet to original specs, which would include recovering and regrilling the amp. The costs might be the same as for a new Mojo cab, but it would certainly feel better.

The amp definitely needs a cab job and a grounded power chord, but most likely also a set of good 6V6GTs. NOS are preferable, but my friends from TAD here in Germany showed me a prototype of a black plate RCA-clone 6V6GT that is to come to market very soon. Could be a winner. Amongst new 6V6GTS I would chose the JJs.

The usual lower wattage Oxfords or ceramic jensens found in these amps are o.k. sounding, but not great. You might want to try a RI P12N or - if your budget allows - a fantastic sounding Celestion G12 gold, which is the closest to an orig. G12 available today. The bigger midrange nicely complemets the typical V-EQ of blackface amps.

Have fun with your new toys!

[BluzMike]

Looks like the Jag is a 1964. I did learn that my friend ordered it from the factory with a Jazz Master neck. Sez his short, stubby fingers couldn't squeeze the fatter Jag neck. Cool that the factory put the Jag decal on it!

The neck on your Jaguar is original and also a standard version. 1 is the part code for Jaguar, and it i comes with a standard 1 5/8" nut width (= B). Very nice slab cut neck with clay dots on an obviously excellent condition instrument with original case. This was a fantastic buy, congrats!

Very nice first year bf Deluxe! You might consider restoring the chopped cabinet to original specs, which would include recovering and regrilling the amp. The costs might be the same as for a new Mojo cab, but it would certainly feel better.

The amp definitely needs a cap job and a grounded power chord, but most likely also a set of good 6V6GTs. NOS are preferable, but my friends from TAD here in Germany showed me a prototype of a black plate RCA-clone 6V6GT that is to come to market very soon. Could be a winner. Amongst new 6V6GTS I would chose the JJs.

The usual lower wattage Oxfords or ceramic jensens found in these amps are o.k. sounding, but not great. You might want to try a RI P12N or - if your budget allows - a fantastic sounding Celestion G12 gold, which is the closest to an orig. G12 available today. The bigger midrange nicely complemets the typical V-EQ of blackface amps.

Have fun with your new toys!

[ampgeek]

Great stuff Mike!
Thank you very much for the input.

I was wondering if that was a slab neck or not. Just hadn't gotten around to studying anything seriously yet.

I was quite amazed that the amp came up so well after all of those years of inactivity. In fact, I wasn't sure if I needed to replace the caps or not. My head said...must do..but my heart said..why? Those old ones just look way too cool...but....it is a trivial job afterall. I even thought about recovering the "wrappers" from the old ones, slipping the new ones inside and sealing up the ends.

Sounds like replacing them is highly recommended from your perspective.

I "fell" into a boatload of NOS tubes after an old laboratory was D&D'd. Strangely enough, there wasn't a single 12AX7 to be had. A couple of sleeves each of BP 5751's, 12AU7's, 12AT7's, 6922 gold pins, 5691's, 5692's, etc. though.

Also, lots of 5881's, 6L6's and.....BP 6V6GT's-RCA

They do sound marvelous as you suggest!!

Thanks again,
Dave O.