HRM OD Tone Control Settings

[tictac]

Are there some "Stock" settings for the tone control trim pots in an HRM ODS? I'm sure HAD sets them up different for each player/guitar type. Is there a consensus on what the best sounding settings are?

TT

[Bob-I]

Are there some "Stock" settings for the tone control trim pots in an HRM ODS? I'm sure HAD sets them up different for each player/guitar type. Is there a consensus on what the best sounding settings are?

TT

Great question, I hope dogears jumps in because he knows these cold.

I usually start with the mid slightly above 1/2 way, measured as these trim pots are not perfect. The lows and highs can then be adjusted by ear with the PAB engaged, but typically I run the lows at about 1/2 and the highs a little below 1/2.

[ayan]

Are there some "Stock" settings for the tone control trim pots in an HRM ODS? I'm sure HAD sets them up different for each player/guitar type. Is there a consensus on what the best sounding settings are?

TT

Great question, I hope dogears jumps in because he knows these cold.

I usually start with the mid slightly above 1/2 way, measured as these trim pots are not perfect. The lows and highs can then be adjusted by ear with the PAB engaged, but typically I run the lows at about 1/2 and the highs a little below 1/2.

True, Scott is the undisputed master at getting excellent recording clips out of these amps. Having said that, I know of no one else that manages to get a good sound when they try Scott's settings (which have changed over time but are, more or less, bass 1/2 up, mids 1/2 up and treble of to 2/3 up). I suspect his playing coupled with his Baker guitar (red flag), speakers (red flag again), FX, recording technique, etc., make it so. I really have compared notes with everyone else that has cared to share info with me, and we all come up with settings that are much lower in either the treble or midrange trimmers. Furthermore, some people have tried amps as set by Scott, with their own speakers and guitars, and have made the same comment I am writing here.

YMMV,

Gil

[Bob-I]

True, Scott is the undisputed master at getting excellent recording clips out of these amps. Having said that, I know of no one else that manages to get a good sound when they try Scott's settings (which have changed over time but are, more or less, bass 1/2 up, mids 1/2 up and treble of to 2/3 up). I suspect his playing coupled with his Baker guitar (red flag), speakers (red flag again), FX, recording technique, etc., make it so.

YMMV,

Gil

Well Gil, I'll respectfully disagree. I've played through Scott's amp with my own guitar and fingers. Sounds great. I've also played my amp next to Scott and it stood up well. Scott noticed that I tweak mine brighter than he does, but taste is subjective.

[dogears]

My current stack is at 230K bass, 8.7K mids, 100K treble (wiper to bass-or only 40% on).

But, my circuit is not the standard low gain.....

Here is the latest clip http://www.scottlernermusic.com/2008/MSwerks8.mp3

The real Bluesmaster HRM that I had was set with the mids REALLY REALLY low. Less than 5K. Treble and bass very much like mine.

[glasman]

My take on tweaking the HRM stack.

1. Turn all HRM controls to their lowest point.
2. Turn on PreAmp boost.
3. Turn up bass control until the switch point is found and adjust up a little more.
4. Adjust treble control to taste (my ears somewhere less than 1/2 up)
5. Adjust mids control up to fill in the missing frequencies. Usually somewhere around 40% up. Once again my ears, my guitars.
6. Fine tweak Bass, Mids and Treble around these positions. For all intents and purposes, the bass control does nothing after 500K (less than 1.5db change from 500k to 1M, verified on a spectrum analyzer).

Other Notes:

HRM is meant to be played LOUD. They sound better loud. When I am working on an amp and my wife is yelling at me about the noise, I know I am at the right level.

Tweak for only 10 to 15 minutes at a time, give your ears time to rest.
Once you have it where you think you like it, walk away for an hour or so and come back and re-audition the amp with "new ears".

HRM is NOT for everybody, it is harder to play and requires a different playing approach. Of course this is just my opinion.

Gary

[dogears]

Thanks Bob!

Btw, my amp is all different now. Different network, coupler, also 6L6 tubes..... Totally different feel and tone. Can't wait for you to try!

True, Scott is the undisputed master at getting excellent recording clips out of these amps. Having said that, I know of no one else that manages to get a good sound when they try Scott's settings (which have changed over time but are, more or less, bass 1/2 up, mids 1/2 up and treble of to 2/3 up). I suspect his playing coupled with his Baker guitar (red flag), speakers (red flag again), FX, recording technique, etc., make it so.

YMMV,

Gil

Well Gil, I'll respectfully disagree. I've played through Scott's amp with my own guitar and fingers. Sounds great. I've also played my amp next to Scott and it stood up well. Scott noticed that I tweak mine brighter than he does, but taste is subjective.

[ayan]

Well Gil, I'll respectfully disagree. I've played through Scott's amp with my own guitar and fingers. Sounds great. I've also played my amp next to Scott and it stood up well. Scott noticed that I tweak mine brighter than he does, but taste is subjective.

I kindly accept your dissent, Bob. However, it is obvious that you and I have not had the same experiences, and that we have not spoken to the same people.

Fortunately, Scott chimed in and cited much lower HRM settings that he had been talking about just weeks ago. I did not make up the quote I cited, with midrange halfway up and treble 2/3 of the way up -- just search the posts. Since Scott does get great tone, no dispute there, I can only assume that he can set things in a way that sound great to him, while others can't get a decent sound for similar settings.

Of course, Scott, it begs the question: seemingly your HRM range is such that you can go from high to low like that and the amp still sounds good? Amazing!

Gil

['67_Plexi]

Here's some EL34 HRM Derivative settings that some may find interesting.

Eric Johnsons OD2 (Lower Gain Texas Version) Gain Channel settings:
Bass (1MA) 3, Middle(25KL) 8, Treble(250KA) 5
Master Volume on 9.

David Grissoms OD2 (Lower Gain Texas Version) Gain Channel settings:
Bass (1MA) 7, Middle(25KL) 5, Treble(250KA) 4
Master Volume on 6.

Joe Bonamassas JB-100 Timmer Settings (internal HRM style)
Bass (1ML) 6, Middle (20KL) 9 , Treble (250KL) 2
Master Volume on 8.

All these guys use the clean channel with the master right up as well to give a huge cruncht tone that cleans up with the guitars volume.

To approximate the Texas version using a typical HRM EL34 circuit, use a total of around 15k to ground on the first OD stage entrance. The Texas OD2 also has a lot more bass allowed through the OD stages. The key to the EJ tone is the perfect balance between pre and power tube overdrive, hence the throtled back preamp gain signal entering the OD stages. He also has the gain control on around 4-5. This can only be acheived effectively at high volumes. In Erics studio this isn't a problem because there are no highly reflective surfaces and the room is totally dead and as everyone knows Joe uses Plexi-Glass screens.



Notice the common denominator. They all play their amps freaking loud. Things change up at those volumes.

[dogears]

Thanks for sharing Alan!!

Here's some EL34 HRM Derivative settings that some may find interesting.

Eric Johnsons OD2 (Lower Gain Texas Version) Gain Channel settings:
Bass (1MA) 3, Middle(25KL) 8, Treble(250KA) 5
Master Volume on 9.

David Grissoms OD2 (Lower Gain Texas Version) Gain Channel settings:
Bass (1MA) 7, Middle(25KL) 5, Treble(250KA) 4
Master Volume on 6.

Joe Bonamassas JB-100 Timmer Settings (internal HRM style)
Bass (1ML) 6, Middle (20KL) 9 , Treble (250KL) 2
Master Volume on 8.

Notice the common denominator. They all play their amps freaking loud. Things change up at those volumes.

[Normster]

I tune my HRM pretty much the same as Gary. I start with Bass off, then slowly turn up until it feels right...which is typically slightly past "off." I start with Mid and Treble at half and turn the treble down to match the clean channel's top end. Lastly, I adjust the mids for the right amount of "honk" being careful not to let it get boxy. I make my adjustments initially with PAB off, and then recheck with PAB on. There is a compromise, but I find the non-PAB tone is more critical for me.

Adding to what Gary said, it's VERY important to start with a fresh set of ears and give them frequent breaks. Also, the amp should be at gig volume and FULLY warmed up...at least 30 minutes.

I find that the HRM is useful, but highly dependant on guitar and speakers. Scott adjusted my Bluesmaster HRM to suit his touch, guitar, and speakers. The clips sounded great! But when I tried it with my speakers and guitar, it was too bright. No big deal, but I think it bears repeating that you should START with known good settings and then TWEAK to taste.

Lastly, the HRM settings can't compensate for bad tone, so make sure the rest of the amp is dialed before you adjust the post-OD tonestack.

My .02 (and worth exactly that.)

[jelle]

Alan, That's great info. Much appreciated!

['67_Plexi]

Alan, That's great info. Much appreciated!

You are very welcome.