Reprise NOS Old Dale RN65D vs NEW Dale RN65D

[j0k3335]

BTW; Old Dales is RN65Da file, new dales is RN65D1 file.

Erwin

oh, sorry I miss this

Thanks a lot

[talbany]

So whatever happened to the findings on the comparison between NOS and the new Dales.Just when we were getting somewhere POOF! Nothing.

Tony

[ayan]

So whatever happened to the findings on the comparison between NOS and the new Dales.Just when we were getting somewhere POOF! Nothing.

Tony

Vintage works better, proof is in the pudding.

Signed,

West coast chapter of the resistor Mafia

[erwin_ve]

So whatever happened to the findings on the comparison between NOS and the new Dales.Just when we were getting somewhere POOF! Nothing.

Tony

Tony, I posted this a while ago: "Guys I need more time to finish this, my guitarschool is booming and have little spare time at the moment".
On top of that someone wanted to buy my amp, I refused but offered to built him one which Im also busy with.

Erwin (from the EU chapter )

[martin manning]

So whatever happened to the findings on the comparison between NOS and the new Dales.Just when we were getting somewhere POOF! Nothing.

Fatigue? The redux poll shows 21 of 37 respondents (78%) either heard some difference but had no preference (13), or collectively had no preference for one over the other (evenly split 8 to 8 for those who had a preference). The other 22% heard no difference.

[ayan]

So whatever happened to the findings on the comparison between NOS and the new Dales.Just when we were getting somewhere POOF! Nothing.

Fatigue? The redux poll shows 21 of 37 respondents (78%) either heard some difference but had no preference (13), or collectively had no preference for one over the other (evenly split 8 to 8 for those who had a preference). The other 22% heard no difference.

My interpretation of the results is that an unquestionable majority heard a difference. I didn't indicate a preference in the poll because if I was, for example, looking for mostly a clean sound using a Strat's neck pickup, I would have gone with the modern-day Dales. However, in reality that's not a sound that does much for me, so I would use in my own amps the older Dales. Neither one is better than the other, IMHO, it just depends on what one is after.

G.

[norburybrook]

So whatever happened to the findings on the comparison between NOS and the new Dales.Just when we were getting somewhere POOF! Nothing.

Fatigue? The redux poll shows 21 of 37 respondents (78%) either heard some difference but had no preference (13), or collectively had no preference for one over the other (evenly split 8 to 8 for those who had a preference). The other 22% heard no difference.

My interpretation of the results is that an unquestionable majority heard a difference. I didn't indicate a preference in the poll because if I was, for example, looking for mostly a clean sound using a Strat's neck pickup, I would have gone with the modern-day Dales. However, in reality that's not a sound that does much for me, so I would use in my own amps the older Dales. Neither one is better than the other, IMHO, it just depends on what one is after.

G.

that's a good point

also I posted my spectro graphs and frequency charts which showed the differences between old and new,but also showed that the same amp recording the same phrase from a looper 5 minutes apart also showed a difference sonically so that threw a spanner in the works ..or confirmed what I'd always susspected that amps sound different on different days

as I've always said : If it matters top you go for it, if not don't sweat, new Dales in a well built amp still sound 100% better than a crap amp, and I'll refer anyone to Larry Carlton playing my #102 who sounded the best I've ever heard him


M

[talbany]

So whatever happened to the findings on the comparison between NOS and the new Dales.Just when we were getting somewhere POOF! Nothing.

Tony

Tony, I posted this a while ago: "Guys I need more time to finish this, my guitarschool is booming and have little spare time at the moment".
On top of that someone wanted to buy my amp, I refused but offered to built him one which Im also busy with.

Erwin (from the EU chapter )

Erwin
Do you believe there is more to be done here with respect to your analysis? or have we determined the recordings and spectrum analysis inconclusive and or is it worth pursuing further IYO?

(Everyone else)
Adding 1 other study that needs to be taken into consideration with respect to those amps that have been modified out in real world testing. Those who have modified their existing amps who believe they can hear some difference and obviously liked the results decided to leave them in their amps or use them in their builds.
1. Gil
2. Erwin
3. Jelle
4. Charlie Wilson
5. Myself
So out of the 6 (well respected) longstanding members here who have actually tried the old Dales given too by either myself or Charlie and kept them in there is only 1 out of the 6 that couldn't tell the difference and that would be Marcus. Am I leaving anyone else out? Perhaps as more people use these the NOS we can build on this consensus.

IMO. We shouldn't focus much attention as to which part sounds better or worse, other than to say do they sound "different"? and that the better or worse question is better left to the individual playing the amp!. If they in fact do sound different then if the goal was to try and get as close to the orgional sound of ser #?? ODS that has the NOS type part then the obvious choice would be to go with the orgional resistor. If you prefer the sound of another resistor type than what Dumble used then that would obviously be the the correct resistor for your amp.If you have not tried the NOS plate resistors Dumble used. Give them a shot!. We are always looking for new members

The Don
Resistor Mafia.

[ayan]

IMO. We shouldn't focus much attention as to which part sounds better or worse, other than to say do they sound "different"? and that the better or worse question is better left to the individual playing the amp!. If they in fact do sound different then if the goal was to try and get as close to the orgional sound of ser #?? ODS that has the NOS type part then the obvious choice would be to go with the orgional resistor. If you prefer the sound of another resistor type than what Dumble used then that would obviously be the the correct resistor for your amp.If you have not tried the NOS plate resistors Dumble used. Give them a shot!. We are always looking for new members

The Don
Resistor Mafia.

Once a member, always a member - there are no provisions for getting out.

[didit]

As I already noted earlier, differences are heard, subtle/small though. As others found too, each is fine in it's own way. No particular preference. Looking now for some thoughts on the physics. What properties of old and new might plausibly be the cause?

Best .. Ian

[norburybrook]

As I already noted earlier, differences are heard, subtle/small though. As others found too, each is fine in it's own way. No particular preference. Looking now for some thoughts on the physics. What properties of old and new might plausibly be the cause?

Best .. Ian

Ian,

I think what could be useful from this is a sort of resistor 'tone' type list.

So you could give resistors a 'tone' type for builders.

However...and there's always a however, it would be hard to generalise perhaps as plate resistors might sound different form other signal resistors.

I know that the spectral examinations I've done aren't consistent in that Erwins new vs old Dales audio files don't give consistent tonal differences. For example the 1k 3db peak over the new is only present at one particular point in the track so it makes categorising resistors by 'tone' difficult.


M

p.s also my thoughts are similar to NOS valves: they're coming to an end(NOS) so for me it's better to look to the future as we're going to keep build amps and need to know what works with current available parts. Robben ford and Larry Carlton both use new JJ valves in their amps for this reason.
perhaps Andy Fuchs could comment on this as he's a guy making new amps and forging ahead.

[didit]

[...] it's better to look to the future as we're going to keep build amps and need to know what works with current available parts.

Just so. I too have interest in what's available today & tomorrow versus mining a finite & shrinking past.

Best .. Ian

[talbany]

As I already noted earlier, differences are heard, subtle/small though. As others found too, each is fine in it's own way. No particular preference. Looking now for some thoughts on the physics. What properties of old and new might plausibly be the cause?

Best .. Ian

Ian,

I think what could be useful from this is a sort of resistor 'tone' type list.

So you could give resistors a 'tone' type for builders.

However...and there's always a however, it would be hard to generalise perhaps as plate resistors might sound different form other signal resistors.

I know that the spectral examinations I've done aren't consistent in that Erwins new vs old Dales audio files don't give consistent tonal differences. For example the 1k 3db peak over the new is only present at one particular point in the track so it makes categorising resistors by 'tone' difficult.


M

p.s also my thoughts are similar to NOS valves: they're coming to an end(NOS) so for me it's better to look to the future as we're going to keep build amps and need to know what works with current available parts. Robben ford and Larry Carlton both use new JJ valves in their amps for this reason.
perhaps Andy Fuchs could comment on this as he's a guy making new amps and forging ahead.

Marcus
"Standards"
IMO. Both larry and Robben work with a completely different set of standards on tubes than we mortals. depending on their workloads travel schedule reliability or added cost etc!.If my amps got bounced around as much as theirs do I too would use whatever is cheap, available reliable and sounded decent and wouldn't load in a set of Blackplates before FedEx showed up.
I think it goes without saying that if your manufacturing guitar amps (with a warranty)for the general public then (again) your standards are completely different than us pirates. Cost,reliability, safety, ROHAS availability I can go on . I will however say this.Having been in that world and talked with or met with many of these builders I know that most guitar amp manufactures do keep some stock of both on hand for certain customers or for certain builds which require the sound of an NOS part. We used to talk about and sometimes trade NOS stuff all the time.

Tony

[talbany]

Gil
I think you just handed us our slogan!
The Resistor Mafia

Once a member, always a member - there are no provisions for getting out.

Your money is on the way

Don

[pompeiisneaks]

Gil
I think you just handed us our slogan!
The Resistor Mafia

Once a member, always a member - there are no provisions for getting out.

Your money is on the way

Don

are you sure you shouldn't take on the borg mantra?

The Resistor Mafia - Resistance is futile.