Reprise NOS Old Dale RN65D vs NEW Dale RN65D

[martin manning]

Sure, I’ll send them anywhere you want.

Erwin the transient behavior you noticed is very interesting. Can you post a screen shot if that? Marcus, do you see that too?

Re the results of the listening test, as many people said there was a difference as not, and of those that did, the votes for “best” sounding are also split evenly. I’d call that inconclusive.

I think it was widely accepted that some ceramic caps have undesirable sound qualities, but the recent data clears it up nicely, showing both voltage dependence of capacitance and high distortion levels for some dielectrics.

[erwin_ve]

Erwin the transient behavior you noticed is very interesting. Can you post a screen shot if that? Marcus, do you see that too?

I will sent a pic soon. Original was recorded in 44,1kHz-24bit.

[ayan]

Sure, I’ll send them anywhere you want.

Erwin the transient behavior you noticed is very interesting. Can you post a screen shot if that? Marcus, do you see that too?

Re the results of the listening test, as many people said there was a difference as not, and of those that did, the votes for “best” sounding are also split evenly. I’d call that inconclusive.

I think it was widely accepted that some ceramic caps have undesirable sound qualities, but the recent data clears it up nicely, showing both voltage dependence of capacitance and high distortion levels for some dielectrics.

Superlatives can be dicey. I heard a difference in the clips, to me the older ones were a little "smoother" sounding... Better? Well, if someone were looking for an Eric Johnson type of clean sound, it seems they would be better off with the new Dales instead. And what I call "smoother" others may just as validly call "lifeless." I hope you guys see where I am going with this.

I don't want to hijack this thread, but I'm almost done with the low plate conversion using Tony's vintage Dales (haven't heard them in the amp yet) and will share some pictures and thoughts. My two amps are not the same circuit, they don't use the same exact parts/components, they have very different iron, etc. They now sound more like one another than ever before. They are both even sounding across the frequency bandwidth, they're both smooth, they both have a real nice clean/OD transition and balance, and they both have a great PAB sound. That was not the case before the makeover, there were some compromises. I was playing them last night and thought that I actually could make them sound just about the same way, without changing the settings, just by maybe digging in a little more on one versus the other. They do feel slightly different to me -- and they always have, it's got to be the iron -- one is a little spongier than the other. But, I suspect if I recorded the two side by side and played back the clips a couple of weeks later, maybe I couldn't tell them apart. However, it'd be easy to differentiate between them by plugging in and playing them. This is what a sound clip will never capture. Imagine hearing a great recorded amp tone, and then hearing another tone just like it from a different amp. If one of the amps required that you played hanging from your feet upside down in order to achieve the "right touch" to get that sound, and the other gave up the same goods without any required acrobatics... I don't know which one the majority would choose, but I'd take the latter.

[10thTx]

Re the results of the listening test, as many people said there was a difference as not

I sure read the results differently. Only 28% of the responders did NOT hear a difference.

I am understanding that the remaining 72% heard a difference & 55% of the time could name a preference in the difference that they heard.

With respect, 10thtx

[pompeiisneaks]

no that's not right, because the poll didn't break it down into 2 questions, Erwin made it so you could choose all four, so it's not an easy 1 to 1 ratio. (radio button vs checkbox) and I haven't done a poll here in forever so I don't know if that's even an option or the default for polls.

Literally it means of the 4 selections 28% chose one etc.

E.g. I chose I could hear a difference but didn't select anything for the "I prefer 1 or 2" because i didn't. Therefore my 'vote' didn't get counted correctly for 'neither' to do more direct math on it, it would be better served as two questions each handled differently, or as linked questions depending on your choice of one how do you select the other, and a C option for part two of 'neither'

~Phil

[martin manning]

Re the results of the listening test, as many people said there was a difference as not

I sure read the results differently. Only 28% of the responders did NOT hear a difference.

I am understanding that the remaining 72% heard a difference & 55% of the time could name a preference in the difference that they heard.

With respect, 10thtx

The total number of votes equals the sum of all the individual question totals. How many votes are allowed per person? If it's one, I'm sticking with my interpretation.

[pompeiisneaks]

Re the results of the listening test, as many people said there was a difference as not

I sure read the results differently. Only 28% of the responders did NOT hear a difference.

I am understanding that the remaining 72% heard a difference & 55% of the time could name a preference in the difference that they heard.

With respect, 10thtx

The total number of votes equals the sum of all the individual question totals. How many votes are allowed per person? If it's one, I'm sticking with my interpretation.

It looked to me like it was 4 votes possible per person, but I may have misunderstood it. I saw 4 checkable checkboxes, not radio buttons.

~Phil

[martin manning]

Up to two could have reasonably been allowed, i.e., I hear a difference and I liked one over the other, but that would still allow erroneous responses. One per user would have been safest. Voting should have been closed after the results were revealed too ;^)

[10thTx]

OK fair enough ........... instead of 28% of the " responders "...............… ONLY 28% of the responses indicated they didn't hear a difference. And 72% of the responses indicated they did hear a difference with 55% of the responses indicating a preference.

With respect, 10thtx

[pompeiisneaks]

OK fair enough ........... instead of 28% of the " responders "...............… ONLY 28% of the responses indicated they didn't hear a difference. And 72% of the responses indicated they did hear a difference with 55% of the responses indicating a preference.

With respect, 10thtx

Then why does the data show that 33% heard a difference? Where did you get 72% from? That's my point, it's an assumption without data to back it up. we only know the total count of votes for a thing, not how many people voted or opted not to vote for a thing.

~Phil

[10thTx]

At the time that I made the statement of 28% of the responses indicated that was what was showing.

The following three categories of responses all indicate hearing a difference or preferring a difference. That was 72%

With respect, 10thtx

[pompeiisneaks]

At the time that I made the statement of 28% of the responses indicated that was what was showing.

The following three categories of responses all indicate hearing a difference or preferring a difference. That was 72%

With respect, 10thtx

Oh I see what you mean. You're adding up the sum of the three last options, but, that means that you think people only chose 2, 3 or 4, not 2 and 3 or 2 and 4? That was my point, i don't think it's clear if the poll was set to block only one answer, so someone could have just voted for "I heard a difference" AND voted for "I preferred sample 1" 1 person, 2 votes but only 1 total stat...

That's my point. IF it was purely 'choose one' then you're right. I only chose one because I could hear a difference but had no preference. If you could only choose one, then you're correct for sure.

Erwin?

~Phil

[martin manning]

If only one choice was allowed then I can say that as many people heard a difference as not, and as many people preferred one as two. It is also true that those with a preference heard a difference.

[10thTx]

If only one choice was allowed then I can say that as many people heard a difference as not

?????

[martin manning]

Sorry, two votes. But there are more total preference votes than difference votes, where they should be equal or less, no? Need to find out what the rule was.