glasman wrote:Price is set more to what the market will bear. Anyway Brandons amps (and mine) are 50% of what a new TR costs. I would say we are both very competitive in price and build quality.
I do not disagree with your statements above at all. What I am saying, is we need more competition, which in turn will bring better prices and quality to the consumer. Nik is just another manufacturer and more to come that will assist in bringing prices and quality in check for the consumer base.
Monopolies or Duopolies are not good for the consumer.
Offshore parts and labour takes a big chunk out of the pockets of builders in North America.If it continues at the pace it is now,there won't be any way to compete with guys like Nik.I'm not saying he does poor product.But undercutting too much ruins it for local builders.
We don't need ANY overseas competition.It is bad for all of us here on this side of the Date line.
You talk about monopoly's.This could easily start one.Undercutting too drastically is no good for anyone.
There is a lot more at stake here than getting a good deal on an amp.
Global economy is not good for us here at home.What good is a local builder if the only way to compete with guys like Nik is to buy parts from the same suppliers he uses?Guess who makes more profit?Does he pay taxes and support the community over here?Not likely.
2700.00 is a very good price.Very good indeed!
I have one of the first Overtones and comparing it to my stock D'lite I'm finding it fares surprisingly well. I actually prefer the cleans on the Overtone by a large margin. There is surely A LOT of room for improvement but I knew that from the get go as I ordered this amp as a "project" platform. I think that all of the builders associated with this forum offer extremely fair prices for their amps given the expertise and dedication to perfecting the circuit.
I have no loyalty to anyone and I side with you that Nik should have contributed a little on this forum in the spirit of goodwill. A little forethought on his part (on a few recent issues) would have avoided much of the current tension.
The real bummer about all this is it really only hurts guys like me who merely enjoy the challenge of tweaking. Because of no fault of my own I can't just jump on forums like this and say, "hey guys, 330 or 500pf snubbers on V2 to cut some highs with the PAB on. What do you think??"
I would love to hear what you are doing to improve the Overtone.
Happy Holidays,
Chris
dogears wrote:Why?
I was right... I have already been contacted by a not very satisfied Ceriatone customer since his amp does not sound good. Maybe he'll chime in. I am helping him fix, pro bono. That is just the way we roll here. Free help, unselfish sharing. Unlike others. Brandon's work is top notch, and he has intimate knowledge of real Dumbles. Unlike Nik. For a similar price, you'd be foolish to purchase the Ceriatone. (We are talking kits)
Although, Nik has been very nice in our communications and his business practices towards the end user are not bad. Good workmanship on my friends amp btw. His was a prebuilt. Not kit.
Brad737 wrote:Wow...
Very classy post.
dogears wrote:Why don't you just get the kit from Funkalicous Groove? His "clone" most likely wipes the floor a thousand times over compared to Ceriatone. Has Nik even played a Dumble?
I assure you my post was totally unbiased. My friend just got his prebuilt and was not very happy with the tone. Fortunately, he is handy with the iron. The first things we are trying, are to raise the 150K over the 100K drive trim up to the standard 220K. Then use the standard bypass cap sizes. 4.7uf. Then remove the masters bright cap. Amp is way bright I heard.
Fwiw, the Dlite you have is not the current production. It would be interesting to hear comparisons to the newer ones. Maybe try Mkleins mods??
Yes, the amp is pretty darned bright and certainly has a lot of sizzle in the OD. That is what I want to tame a bit.
I am also finalizing the list of D'Lite mods as well. If you don't mind, please keep us (me) informed with the Overtone mods. It would be much appreciated.
phsyconoodler wrote:Offshore parts and labour takes a big chunk out of the pockets of builders in North America.If it continues at the pace it is now,there won't be any way to compete with guys like Nik.I'm not saying he does poor product.But undercutting too much ruins it for local builders.
We don't need ANY overseas competition.It is bad for all of us here on this side of the Date line.
You talk about monopoly's.This could easily start one.Undercutting too drastically is no good for anyone.
There is a lot more at stake here than getting a good deal on an amp.
Global economy is not good for us here at home.What good is a local builder if the only way to compete with guys like Nik is to buy parts from the same suppliers he uses?Guess who makes more profit?Does he pay taxes and support the community over here?Not likely.
2700.00 is a very good price.Very good indeed!
We live in a price driven global economy.
It is not about to change...anytime soon...i don't think...
We're all doomed...
Going the way the coucou bird went...
That is just a cold hard fact...
I thought of getting a Dumble clone but, huh...have decided against it...too complicated and bad Karma...
phsyconoodler wrote:Offshore parts and labour takes a big chunk out of the pockets of builders in North America.If it continues at the pace it is now,there won't be any way to compete with guys like Nik.I'm not saying he does poor product.But undercutting too much ruins it for local builders.
We don't need ANY overseas competition.It is bad for all of us here on this side of the Date line.
You talk about monopoly's.This could easily start one.Undercutting too drastically is no good for anyone.
There is a lot more at stake here than getting a good deal on an amp.
Global economy is not good for us here at home.What good is a local builder if the only way to compete with guys like Nik is to buy parts from the same suppliers he uses?Guess who makes more profit?Does he pay taxes and support the community over here?Not likely.
2700.00 is a very good price.Very good indeed!
You are correct, but manufacturing is long gone in the USA. Our government decided long ago to move manufacturing overseas. As a matter of fact we the people are at fault for allowing it to happen. (I can't stand when our government officials state "Sending Jobs Overseas is Good For America"
If you want to solve this problem, 1st thing, is level the playing field. As an example we should tax incoming competing products so that out products actually become competitive. Niks products would enter the USA at $2700 , the consumer would buy on quality, service, guarantee ect... or simply could not afford it. "I really think the opposite, more people would be able to afford the product if the above scenario would play out"
Until then we live in globalization, and that equals stiff competition, I actually hate it and call it "Vulture Capitalism", but it is something we need to deal with as a nation.
glasman wrote:Price is set more to what the market will bear. Anyway Brandons amps (and mine) are 50% of what a new TR costs. I would say we are both very competitive in price and build quality.
I do not disagree with your statements above at all. What I am saying, is we need more competition, which in turn will bring better prices and quality to the consumer. Nik is just another manufacturer and more to come that will assist in bringing prices and quality in check for the consumer base.
Monopolies or Duopolies are not good for the consumer.
While I appreciate what your saying I feel you missed the point. It scares people to have to drop prices to remain competitive. They want ways to justify price increases that will get them into that elite status quo which more times than not is solely predicated by exorbitant prices and not history of workmanship. In all successful business models reputation precedes high cost and not the other way around. Competition scares us. A tell tale sign is the way the US is changing from a manufacturer to a distributor based nation. Why, because a guy with 2.5 kids, a stay at home Wife, a mortgage, 2 cars and dog. Has to get his wares where he can afford it . Whether it's a new TV, Car or Amp Head. He longs for that 3k amp head he just can't afford it, so goes where he can to get something that resembles what he longs for at the dollars he can afford . It's not the offshore vendors fault the fault lies here with us.
Last edited by playonit on Sat Nov 19, 2011 4:35 am, edited 3 times in total.
Yes, the amp is pretty darned bright and certainly has a lot of sizzle in the OD. That is what I want to tame a bit.
I am also finalizing the list of D'Lite mods as well. If you don't mind, please keep us (me) informed with the Overtone mods. It would be much appreciated.
Chris
So you're not a fan of the OD on the Ceriatone? How does it compare to the D'lite?
If someone likes your experimental music then it isn't experimental enough.
