Yet another Dumble type amp being marketed

[FUCHSAUDIO]

Wow $4500 US for a dumble clone.
I hope it comes with wheels and a motor !

Cheers

Guy

This amp retails for around 4-K. You make the choice....what would you rather spend that kind of cash on and own ? https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set ... d657e5d994

[pompeiisneaks]

Yeah as for cost, I don't see a problem with any high quality boutique amp builder asking for that much, I've built a good 10-12 amps now and the raw materials cost is at a minimum in most cases 1000-1200 and then on top of that add a huge amount of labor to build them, the cost gets up fast. The more complex the amp, dumble style for example, the base cost goes up even more, and then the amount of labor does too.

If you want to charge minimum wage for that skill level, then yes you can drop an amp out the door for 2k and still make 7$ an hour, if you think (and you should) that this kind of skilled labor deserves anywhere from 20 to 50$ an hour, it gets up to that price super fast. Seems like such a silly debate, why do people think that someone should do massive amounts of work for free?

I'd guess I probably put 100+ hours into that dumble, possibly over 200 if I really count every bit of work it was. Now, I'm new and can likely shave off a LOT of that time by doing more of them, but I'd bet even a fast builder would take 60 hours on an amp of that quality. (depending on some variables like pre-built chassis and boards from some third party vendor, but then those costs go up anyway, someone did some labor somewhere). at 60 hrs at just 15$ that people are tyring to make the new minimum wage, the pay for that work is 900. so if materials are 1500, and labor is 900 there's not even mark up for the business to make a margin and it's sold out the door at 2400. I feel amp builders with the skill it takes should be asking for more like 40$ an hour or so and that's 2400 in labor alone. So yeah, what do you builders feel your time is worth? It blows my mind that Nik at ceriatone feels good charging so little for his amps, he must pay his builders (or himself maybe?) 2$ an hour or so.

~Phil

[erwin_ve]

Phil it's a normal evolution for anyone in the amp businuiss to speed up processes.

PCB are fine when properly designed just like a eyelet board needs to be a proper design.
PCB, chassis and much other standardized stuff speeds up the process a lot. Fuchs, Glaswerks and other companies work like that and are lightyears ahead of us...
Buying transformers and passive electronics in large quantities does make it a lot cheaper, I can't imagine Andy has $1200 on parts alone for his ODS..
Ceriatone is a asian company and have way lower wages. We all like our smartphones and pc a lot because the wages are a lower in that area of the world lower so I won't debate that.

[norburybrook]

Yeah as for cost, I don't see a problem with any high quality boutique amp builder asking for that much, I've built a good 10-12 amps now and the raw materials cost is at a minimum in most cases 1000-1200 and then on top of that add a huge amount of labor to build them, the cost gets up fast. The more complex the amp, dumble style for example, the base cost goes up even more, and then the amount of labor does too.

If you want to charge minimum wage for that skill level, then yes you can drop an amp out the door for 2k and still make 7$ an hour, if you think (and you should) that this kind of skilled labor deserves anywhere from 20 to 50$ an hour, it gets up to that price super fast. Seems like such a silly debate, why do people think that someone should do massive amounts of work for free?

I'd guess I probably put 100+ hours into that dumble, possibly over 200 if I really count every bit of work it was. Now, I'm new and can likely shave off a LOT of that time by doing more of them, but I'd bet even a fast builder would take 60 hours on an amp of that quality. (depending on some variables like pre-built chassis and boards from some third party vendor, but then those costs go up anyway, someone did some labor somewhere). at 60 hrs at just 15$ that people are tyring to make the new minimum wage, the pay for that work is 900. so if materials are 1500, and labor is 900 there's not even mark up for the business to make a margin and it's sold out the door at 2400. I feel amp builders with the skill it takes should be asking for more like 40$ an hour or so and that's 2400 in labor alone. So yeah, what do you builders feel your time is worth? It blows my mind that Nik at ceriatone feels good charging so little for his amps, he must pay his builders (or himself maybe?) 2$ an hour or so.

~Phil

Phil, I completely agree and I mentioned this fact early in thsi thread. People have been asking me to build amps for them over the last couple of years and i just say no, it's not worth it. I have too many other things going on to even consider stepping in to that world. I have sold a few amps to a discerning friend of mine who pleaded with me after he'd played them. I'd built the amps for myslef so it was hard to let them go. I'm still in the process of replacing them

as always though, an interesting discussion.

M

[FUCHSAUDIO]

Honestly: In the case of any builder entering the d-style marketplace, why would you NOT do some market research ?!

To "market" an amp like this, at a price like that, when your basically not doing much beyond cloning is fairly silly. I guess with companies like Two Rock selling a TS-1 (with less features for more money) made it compelling to jump into the marketplace.

You want a d-inspired amp with more useful features and at a lesser price ? A fairer comparison is the ODS-Classic anyway. $ 3-K map. Active loop, dual gain boosts, overdrive tone control, killer digital reverb, 5-way foot switch...

[FUCHSAUDIO]

Phil it's a normal evolution for anyone in the amp businuiss to speed up processes.

PCB are fine when properly designed just like a eyelet board needs to be a proper design. PCB, chassis and much other standardized stuff speeds up the process a lot. Fuchs, Glaswerks and other companies work like that and are lightyears ahead of us...Buying transformers and passive electronics in large quantities does make it a lot cheaper, I can't imagine Andy has $1200 on parts alone for his ODS.. Ceriatone is a asian company and have way lower wages. We all like our smartphones and pc a lot because the wages are a lower in that area of the world lower so I won't debate that.

I'm not going to delve into our actual cost to produce a product, but trust me overhead, labor costs, packing materials, lab testing for CE or RoHs certs, insurance, corporate taxes, advertising and promotion, warranty etc. are far greater costs in the long run. These amps didn't design themselves, they didn't build themselves, and the lights didn't come on this morning in the shop just because I'm a nice guy.

[erwin_ve]

Andy you have nice designs, I like the looks of the ODS2. What was the turning point for your company? We basically all start as cloners as part of the learning.( I'm a hobby builder no pro)

[FUCHSAUDIO]

Andy you have nice designs, I like the looks of the ODS2. What was the turning point for your company?

I'll let you know when the turning point gets here.....lol (and thanks for the kind words).

[erwin_ve]

Andy you have nice designs, I like the looks of the ODS2. What was the turning point for your company?

I'll let you know when the turning point gets here.....lol (and thanks for the kind words).

So that's why you're here

[FUCHSAUDIO]

Hah: I used to visit more often and assist where I could. In the beginning some Dumble info and circuit stuff was exchanged. I haven't logged in in ages until a friend told me about these recent hot threads I "may want to check out".

At this point it's difficult to walk the line between being helpful and being accused of coming here to discover some new secret sauce I didn't need to know..lol

Like TGP, many of the name guys who used to come here have left for mostly these same reasons. I'm still a fan of amp making as a hobby. It's fun to make new circuits, come up with new designs or expand on existing ones, sometime build something for myself or a friend, but as I've grown older, things take longer to do between the responsibilities of running a business, playing in a couple of bands, and needing time for myself.

[martin manning]

Andy, we’ve continued to make progress around here, in spite of the turnover. There have been number of new ODS builds and a few SSS types. Not all slavishly constructed clones, either, I’m happy to say. I invite you to check out the improved step filter schematic and response, which is much better than the (supposed) originals.

[FUCHSAUDIO]

Thanks Martin. I have a new Clean Machine-II coming, but no step filters. Those were basically right out of the Radiotron book, as I recall.
Glad you guys are advancing and most of all HAVING FUN !

[Guy77]

Wow $4500 US for a dumble clone.
I hope it comes with wheels and a motor !

Cheers

Guy

This amp retails for around 4-K. You make the choice....what would you rather spend that kind of cash on and own ? https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set ... d657e5d994

Hi Andy. Your amp definitely has wheels and a motor! its definitely worth the price. I love the fact that it has a digital read out for the bias, I am surprised more company's are not doing this. The way your amp has separate tone controls for both the clean and dirty channels is also very nice . I remember after building my first dumble style amp, I had wanted to set the tone differently when switching to overdrive.
Nice to see you online here again.

Cheers

Guy

[FUCHSAUDIO]

Thanks for the kind words bud !!

[AtomCap]

Where were these pics of the boards from ?

Lance posted them up on Facebook, I was shocked to see that posting, even more shocked to see the wide use of carbon comp resistors in a d-style amp, which are vastly not built with carbon comps..
Then again maybe thats part of the "groundbreaking new technology" ?? (sarcasm) As for PCB amps , there is nothing wrong with them when done properly , obviously you've done your homework