Tweedle Dee - another latecomer

[bluesfendermanblues]

Another latecomer to the party.

I have spend the last couple of nights converting a DIY 5E3 to Tweedle Dee specs. -....wow, much more headroom. Really nice gigging amp, that stays clean up to 1 o'clock with singles.

Impressive how altering (IMO optimizing) the cathodyne phaseinverter, can clean up the amp, converting it from a mushy stock tweed deluxe to a brownface clean.


Performed Mods:
Volume pots: Converting the volume pots to normal operation, by reversing the in/out pins. (Like in a 6G3 deluxe)

HP filter 220k/500p: Since this is a Dumble clone - I have added the usual 220K/500p combo between the volume pots and V2 input (pin2). (Like the mixing resistors in a 6G3 - only with additional 500p cap across like the ODS dumble amps.)
Gives the amp a little more upper mid compression - nice.

Possible mods:

I might install a hidden Classic Tone Stack (as in #124 prior to the skyliner stack). The tone pot would be the Treble pot and the bass and mid pot trimmers inside the chassis - always have them around 11 o'clock and noon anyway.

This would provide me with an (almost) unaltered normal channel plus a Classic channel. The Gound switch could be a PAB switch, disconnecting the mid and bass pots OR a swich goint from classic stack to the stock tone pot.

Oval hole cabinet back - maybe with a small extra hole in front of the power tubes.[/b]

[Structo]

Sounds like it will be a great amp for you.

Please post pictures of the progress when you can.

[qtcustom]

I'm very interested in doing a ground-up 5e3 in this style as my next build (last build was about four years ago- ouch!) I like where this thread is going, please continue.

[rogb]

I'm doing one right now, just finishing the cab, chassis is here, all other parts are on their way from the USA, but probably won't clear customs till New Year.

Once it is running depending on the B+ from the MC iron I may kit it out with a nice set of NOS glass, till then JJ6V6. 12AX7/AY7 in V1 hmm dunno yet.

The cab is in red Marshall levant with black grille as a kind of nod of respect to Henry and Redplate's awesome amps.

Got my Rocket 50 ready to go too

[bluesfendermanblues]

..................

Possible mods:

I might install a hidden Classic Tone Stack (as in #124 prior to the skyliner stack). The tone pot would be the Treble pot and the bass and mid pot trimmers inside the chassis - always have them around 11 o'clock and noon anyway.

This would provide me with an (almost) unaltered normal channel plus a Classic channel. The Gound switch could be a PAB switch, disconnecting the mid and bass pots OR a swich goint from classic stack to the stock tone pot.

Oval hole cabinet back - maybe with a small extra hole in front of the power tubes.[/b]

UPDATE
I have now installed the Classic tone stack in the 'Bright' Channel.

a) Changed the 22n cap on V1b to a 330p.
b) and put the 100k slope with 100n for bass and 47n for mid.
c) Since I waht the amp to look fairly stock and prefer simplicity and therefore no extra pots (in the #2 jack chassis holes); I used trimmers in order to get the right values for mid and bass pot (for my taste and guitar). I calibrated the values to sound kind of similar to my #124 low plate classic 50W amp + 1x12 Cel 12G65 cab.
I ended up with 22k for mid (soldered to the 47n and Ground) and 100k for Bass (soldered to the 100n and ground).
d) The 1M Tone pot was changed for a 250K Lin pot and wired like the Classic stack with one outer log to the 330p and the other outer log to the 100n/100k connection. Like in the Classic amp schemo. So in comparison with a normal Classic ODS, the bass and min 'pots' are fixed values and the treble pot is in the 'tone' pot position.

As Talbany (Tony) has pointed out a couple of times the treble pot is like a mix control - balancing the bright and darker tones. (don't mis having bass and mid knobs. They are set and forget IMO).

PAB/Mid Boost:
For fun I put a 56k resistor between the 22k mid 'pot' resistor and ground, and have used the vacant Groun Switch for a PAB/Mid Boost switch. When engaged it make this new bright channel, sound pretty much like the 'normal channel. You could put the PAB/Mid boost on a relay for footswitching OR simply use an A/B switch to go between the 'Normal' channel for lead and the 'Bright' (Classic stack) channel for Rythm.

I like this version of the Amp and the PAB/Mid boost will probably be used in the #124 lClassic stack amp as well. I prefer it to the standard PAB, I guess.

I will consider some sound files, but I always find it difficult and frustrating to capture the sound and feel of the amp in the room, on a mp3. And mic position and choice has a major role in making and breaking the sound on the file, but it'll come.

Cabinet
The last 'mod' will be changing the bottom back panel to a version with an oval hole in order to optimize the bass resonse of the amp.

Conclusion so far:
All in all, I find the Tweedle Dee mods and the above has converted this particular DIY 5E3 into a usuable gig amp - a using a Zen drive you will be in ODS country.

I use the Classic stack since I'm a strat player. With HB's I woul probably go with the Skyliner (Rock City) stack instead.

Tone-Stack-Rotate-Switch
Side Note: The above experiment with the tone stack, is food for thought in regards to putting a tone-stack-rotate-switch (like Henry's Red Plate Amps) in my other clones; #102, #183.
You could put it on back of the chassis or hard wire the presence control and use the presence pot chassis hole. The switch could cover e.g.;
Fender Blackface, Dumble Classic, Skyliner, Bluesmaster. Tweedle Dee sounds would be either of the above stacks with mid pot lift, as above.

Such a switch allows you manipulate the mid frequencies to suit various SC and HB guitars and different venues. I already have a Skyliner/ Classic switch in the #102 and #183 clones (plus a LNFB switch in the #102), but the above would be interesting to perform some experimentation with.

[qtcustom]

Wow, that's a lot of information to chew on. Seems like some great modifications. I hope you don't mind but I'm making some notes on my tweed deluxe schematic and layout that I have here. Also curious about the multi tone stack switch you're describing for and ODS type- are you envisioning something like a cut control that shifts the mid values, or is it something more involved? Thanks for the thread, enjoying it.

[bluesfendermanblues]

hi qt, being a modder, the mid switch idea is out and instead I've put in a 500k bass and 250k middle pot in place of the no II jacks.

The tone stack values ended up being a 22n mid cap and a 120k slope resistor. Those values seem to suit the 80s celestion 12L80 speaker in the cabinet. All I need now is puttting an oval backplate on the cabinet in order to get a rounder bottom end sound, like my 1x12 12g65 oval back cabinet.

Its a great grab and go amp for use with a pedalboard with wah, zen, rev and dly.

[xtian]

In the interest of doing this inexpensively, what do you think of OEM Fender Hot Rod Deluxe iron and a pair of 6L6?

OT:
4K2 primary, 40W
https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/P-TF50438

PT:
495 VDC unloaded
440 VDC @ 65.7 mA DC
388 VDC @ 200 mA DC
https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/P-TF36958

[bluesfendermanblues]

In the interest of doing this inexpensively, what do you think of OEM Fender Hot Rod Deluxe iron and a pair of 6L6?

OT:
4K2 primary, 40W
https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/P-TF50438

PT:
495 VDC unloaded
440 VDC @ 65.7 mA DC
388 VDC @ 200 mA DC
https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/P-TF36958

I believe those Fender trannies are fine and on par with the iron, Dumble himself has used in his amps. (If you look in the Dumble files section, you will find a lot of clones using peavey, carvin or fender PTs/PTs.)

Do you only have the iron or do you have the whole Fender Hot Rod Deluxe Amp. If so, why not simply convert the amp to a Dumble clone.

Like:

https://tubeamparchive.com/viewtopic.php?t=2165

https://tubeamparchive.com/viewtopic.php?t=892

https://tubeamparchive.com/viewtopic.php?t=2370

Personally, I would build an ODS clone (e.g. Classic or Skyline) with the iron you have on hand. A Tweedle Dee would probably be more fun with lower power amp section - like 6v6s - but each to his own.

[xtian]

No, i don't have any iron yet. Just dreaming.

[MishaGolf]

In my opinion, choosing Fender amps is a great idea. The Fender Hot Rod Deluxe IV 40W is especially cool. It's been written about here above. I've often seen it used at concerts. Here's https://guitar-amp.com/fender-hot-rod-deluxe-iv-40w/ more details about the pros and cons, so as not to copy the text