Trainwreck PT and OT originals. I have em!

[RJ Guitars]

... Hey Mark, when you do your testing, would you also give a close listen to mechanical vibration compared to other transformers. Seems that has popped up from time to time. And I have a PT here that I have to change. Or if one runs warmer than the another.

This is not the first time this has been mentioned... In my comparisons of the these units I did recently, the TW unit had a bit of vibration on the bench with nothing else hooked up or close to it. I have found this occurs occasionally with most of the brands of of PT's I deal with. I ran a post on this topic previously that might help sort out the difference between hum and vibration and also where hum comes from and how to reduce it: https://tubeamparchive.com/viewtopic.php?t=17505 Phil at Heyboer did an excellent job of explaining some of reasons behind these issues.

If you look closely at the pictures I posted earlier in my comparisons there is one curious item that so far nobody has mentioned... I'll make it easier to see. On the TW tranny they inserted a wood shim between the windings and the frame. I figured this was to tighten things up to reduce vibrations. I'm not sure if this is used in all the TW trannies or is unique to this specimen, I only bought one of them to compare.

I am working on a test fixture to do comparisons that are done in exactly the same amp with no change in the components or settings otherwise. Once that is ready then I'll test and measure what kind of heat each unit puts out. In my own work with the Pacific trannies I've never had one get hot on me yet, but I don't make that many amps. However, this is not a complaint I hear about very often (never so far) in contrast tot he occasional mention of the vibration issue.

The two trannies below are TW part# 11410 (with shim) on the left and the K&M Analog part# 25425 on the right (without shim).

[RJ Guitars]

I do have a question for Dave, however. Will your TW trannies be priced the same as the ones currently offered by Pacific, or will there be a significant discount making them actually affordable and worth buying?

Blackburn, thanks for asking this question, I was wondering about that myself. I have watched this thread run for the past several weeks and have been somewhat patient in waiting for "how this is going to work" to become more obvious... it remains a mystery to me still.

For the past few years I have been buying 25 TW specification Pacific transformer units at a time, either my own part numbers or before that, the K&M Analog part numbers. I was able to get a decent quantity discount and pass on some of the savings to members of TAG. Both the sales and Engineering staff verified for me that the K&M units were technically equivalent. It was also my understanding that Pacific did not want to sell them as original TW part numbers because of a proprietary agreement with TW and out of respect for his family. I do not think it is appropriate for me to sell the TW part number trannies so I am not looking at that option.

Now I am starting to run low on Pacific power transformer stock and it's not clear that it would best serve TAG for me to order more units of my part number. I don't sell or attempt to sell much outside of the TAG community so I am at best a somewhat spooky supplier based on the RCE entry into the TAG forum. I believe my Pacific built trannies are a solid authentic offering for TW style amp builds and my PT is our best option for a Rocket PT. However, defending them as equivalent without RCE verification and/or competing directly with RCE doesn't really get any of us ahead within the forum. Perhaps RCE will provide trannies at a discounted price directly within the TAG forum?

So here comes the question for you Dave: What can you do have for us at TAG? I recently bought one of your original part number tranny sets and had to pay full price because I only bought one set. Considering I bought ~75 units last year and our mutual association with TAG, I am not feeling special. What will RCE bring to TAG that is unique and has been unavailable previously? I won't wrestle you for the small market share of tranny sales here but Pacific had a good name and I was able to offer TAG members a discount. Will you do the same?

...I get the feeling JM hates buying from us. He keeps threatening an intellectual property war... ...

I wasn't comfortable with this... I'd rather do what it takes to have JM as an ally rather than do anything that would put him at odds with us.

[Zippy]

I do have a question for Dave, however. Will your TW trannies be priced the same as the ones currently offered by Pacific, or will there be a significant discount making them actually affordable and worth buying?

Blackburn, thanks for asking this question, I was wondering about that myself. I have watched this thread run for the past several weeks and have been somewhat patient in waiting for "how this is going to work" to become more obvious... it remains a mystery to me still.

For the past few years I have been buying 25 TW specification Pacific transformer units at a time, either my own part numbers or before that, the K&M Analog part numbers. I was able to get a decent quantity discount and pass on some of the savings to members of TAG. Both the sales and Engineering staff verified for me that the K&M units were technically equivalent. It was also my understanding that Pacific did not want to sell them as original TW part numbers because of a proprietary agreement with TW and out of respect for his family. I do not think it is appropriate for me to sell the TW part number trannies so I am not looking at that option.

Now I am starting to run low on Pacific power transformer stock and it's not clear that it would best serve TAG for me to order more units of my part number. I don't sell or attempt to sell much outside of the TAG community so I am at best a somewhat spooky supplier based on the RCE entry into the TAG forum. I believe my Pacific built trannies are a solid authentic offering for TW style amp builds and my PT is our best option for a Rocket PT. However, defending them as equivalent without RCE verification and/or competing directly with RCE doesn't really get any of us ahead within the forum. Perhaps RCE will provide trannies at a discounted price directly within the TAG forum?

So here comes the question for you Dave: What can you do have for us at TAG? I recently bought one of your original part number tranny sets and had to pay full price because I only bought one set. Considering I bought ~75 units last year and our mutual association with TAG, I am not feeling special. What will RCE bring to TAG that is unique and has been unavailable previously? I won't wrestle you for the small market share of tranny sales here but Pacific had a good name and I was able to offer TAG members a discount. Will you do the same?

That nails down, in a nutshell, what I've been wondering all along. This has been one of the most overt grab-on-go commercial hit and runs on the website yet. I'm sorry to see you getting slammed in the middle of this, RJ. You've been an intellectual resource as well as a supplier of great parts at reduced prices. Rockin' Dave is laughing all the way to the bank and likely bragging to his beer buds about how he suckered The Amp Garage.

RockingClassicElectronics = No value added.

[RockingClassElectronics]

Again: Haven't been getting notification emails and I keep unchecking and re-checking email notification setting...anyway:

TAG members now have more options when it comes to wreck sets. If they want the same set we've been making for Ken, they can order that. If they want sets with more options like you offer, they can order those. The differences are very minor. We've posted compare and contrast on here, I think a couple times now. RJ I've been watching your prices and sold 4 sets for around the same price. As far as discounted with TAG I'm not sure if you mean the price you have listed on your site, or less. I haven't listed these on an actual site just yet. They've all just been paypal invoices. 90% of our inquiries have been special requests in engineering different variations in voltages/ secondary impedance. As far as pricing goes, I follow the PacTran MSRP minus $5-10 and waive the PayPal fee, which I assume you are doing too. Shipping is exact cost to location rounded to the nearest dollar either up or down.

"Laughing all the way to the bank?" This doesn't even pay for gas lol


So here comes the question for you Dave: What can you do have for us at TAG? I recently bought one of your original part number tranny sets and had to pay full price because I only bought one set. Considering I bought ~75 units last year and our mutual association with TAG, I am not feeling special. What will RCE bring to TAG that is unique and has been unavailable previously? I won't wrestle you for the small market share of tranny sales here but Pacific had a good name and I was able to offer TAG members a discount. Will you do the same?

...I get the feeling JM hates buying from us. He keeps threatening an intellectual property war... ...

I wasn't comfortable with this... I'd rather do what it takes to have JM as an ally rather than do anything that would put him at odds with us.[/quote]

[RockingClassElectronics]

I wasn't comfortable with this... I'd rather do what it takes to have JM as an ally rather than do anything that would put him at odds with us.[/quote] [/quote]


If we don't want him at odds with us, we would have to stop making/selling anything trainwreck and buy all his stuff. This forum would basically have to disappear. lol

Taken from Trainwreck Circuits web site:

"Ken respected, trusted, and was influenced by JM's ears. JM worked with Ken before Trainwreck Circuits existed. Ken consulted JM on issues of tone and JM helped Ken voice the original Trainwreck amps. JM worked on a number of 'wrecks over the years. Ken appreciated JM's ears and meticulous work; Ken would have hired JM but JM worked so slowly that paying him would have raised the price of the amps by 25% (This was when Ken sold them for $650 a head. Ken never imagined the monetary value his amps would achieve). When Ken spoke of nobody being able to build Trainwrecks, JM had never built a complete one. JM is sure Ken would have affirmed that the new amps sound "right". That's coming from the man who helped Ken originally voice Trainwreck amps.

JM has access to information no one else has. He has access to Ken's parts list and more importantly, Ken's notes.

JM works in Ken's shop and builds with Ken's equipment, helping him replicate Ken's exact methods. Working with Ken's equipment actually helps JM to understand the way Ken did things. He uses Ken's stash of tubes and parts, too.

JM compares his newly built Rockets with Ken's personal Rocket, the one Ken referred to as "Reality Check". JM's newly built amps hold their own and then some. They sound amazing and meet the tonal standard set by "Reality Check" even in blind listening tests."

How much of this info has been compromised on this forum? Im pretty sure we've all been shit-listed.

[vibratoking]

It appears the answer to the question is, "not much".

[RockingClassElectronics]

It appears the answer to the question is, "not much".

I don't expect anyone to read through this thread, so I don't mind posting this again:

What I/we (Myself, Rocking Class/Pacific Transformer) are offering the whole forum and not just Trainwreck particular:
-engineering
-winding/production
-supply

I am not a third party. My inquiries go straight to Sean's desk (Pacific Engineer and Rocking Class partner). Inquiries gone through me cost no money to you, and are dealt with quicker.

We made parts for Ken Fischer. Now we'll make those SAME parts for you. They are NOT "Dave's parts" as some of you have been calling them. They are Ken's specs. Not mine. I'm just having them made and made available to YOU. *No, Ken did NOT engineer, or design them. Pacific Transformer did, FOR Ken.

We can engineer and/or replicate a transformer for any amplifier. The engineering part is actually easy, because that's our own designs. I only say replicating is harder because original parts are hard to come by. We don't want to reverse engineer copies. I can, and have researched basic specs of all the popular amps off of their schematics. Like I said, that's the easy part. What we really want are originals (preferably burned or bad so we dont have to ruin a good transformer).

Which is why I'm offering prototyping deals for original parts. As far as TW irons' pricing goes, RJ and I will discuss that. It would be nice to keep them relatively the same between both of us.

[RockingClassElectronics]

This thread is probably out of place... I've never used a forum ever before this one.

[RJ Guitars]

Dave , that it's sounding positive... I will work with you on this. Give me a call. rj

[RJ Guitars]

Mark, the express and Liverpool iron is the same. The rocket PT is the same but with a 5v tap added to power the rectifier and the rocket OT is diferent. That is why the Chris Merrin name has been recently mentioned in some threads.
Maybe pacific has the specs of that OT but I'm sure is not a transformer that Ken ordered in big numbers.

Jon Mark adds an external 5V tranny and otherwise Pacific never made one for a Rocket. I have notes here in my archives from Pat Thomas (Dave's dad) indicating they made one and only one set of transformers for Trainwreck. Earlier in this thread Dave confirms that for us and mentions there was some work on other prototypes that never went into production.

I am now convinced that I am wrong in my assumption that the Rocket never used a Pacific power transformer. I've recently had access to an inside look at an authentic Rocket and also revisited some of the photos that have been shared by Wreck enthusiasts and have seen more than one with the Pacific power tranny in conjunction with a 5V rectifier tranny mounted inside the chassis. So while it is apparently correct that there was only one tranny set made for TW by Pacific, it appears like I fooled myself by not applying common knowledge - KF had a practice of using what he had available.

Can anyone help sort out if there is any down side to adding a 5V tap to the Wreck PT. This is essentially what I did through the Pacific engineering folks (Sean) in the development of my Wreck PT...the one size fits all Wreck PT that essentially goes back to a clone of the Stancor P-8378.

[RockingClassElectronics]

When I get on my desk computer in the office tomorrow I'm going to post every spec I have for everything we made for Ken. Unfortunately I can't do it for the JM parts. But I will say, he does have his own parts that differ from Ken's just as much as RJ's (which isn't much...but done in their own way) He does order Ken parts as well, but his order history (I am told) is 'consistently-inconsistent' which can tell you he likes to mix it up a bit.

[RockingClassElectronics]

Parts made for Ken, himself. PART ONE

[RockingClassElectronics]

Pacific Parts for Ken part 2

[RockingClassElectronics]

Pacific KF parts part 3

[RockingClassElectronics]

pacific parts 4