Anyone else make mead?

[cbass]

Hmm never done any dishwarshin I've been waiting to run into some nice glass carboys

[ampgeek]

Regarding the use of good cannabis concentrates such as hash, hash oil, etc..in brewing:

Understand that those are "raw" concentrates of the botanical structures (glandular trichomes) that store naturally produced cannibinoid compounds that will NOT elicit much of a euphoric effect in us mere mortals. Obviously, the same holds true with good buds.

These pre-cursor compounds must first be decarboxylated to turn them into the good stuff (aka: THC). The most simple approach there is via heating. Hence, the reason why we smoke and cook (at relatively high temperatures) these materials before ingestion.

However, doing it "correctly" can be a tricky undertaking given the time-at-temperature requirements for high conversion rates and the desire to not turn them into other, less euphoric compounds (e.g., CBNs).

Take a look at the conversion curve below. At boiling temperatures (212 F at sea level and even less at higher elevations), only a slight amount is converted into desireable THC even after ~50 minutes. It is unlikely that any more would be converted with even longer times.

The curve also shows that higher temperatures get the job done at much shorter times.

Not to mention that the pre-cursor cannabinoid compounds are extremely non-polar in nature and likely won't dissolve/dispurse in the aqueous (polar) pre brewing boiling process. The proverbial oil-in-water syndrome. They will probably melt...but...that won't help much in dispersion and the subsequent conversion reaction.

So....all this mumbo-jumbo to simply say....don't sacrifice your revered cannabinoid pre-cursor compounds with boiling if you are hoping for a THC-like euphoric effect in your brews.

Rock on!
Dave O.

[Structo]

Some guy up here blew his house up making hash oil.

They were using the Butane extraction method and he must have gotten careless.

Like, man this is looking good. Time to light a cig............BOOM!

Idiots.

There was some news article talking about a new concentrated cannabis substance.

After I read for a few seconds, I was dumbfounded.
It was HASH OIL!

We were making hash oil back in the 70's....

I guess it is all new again.

[EtherealWidow]

Hmm never done any dishwarshin I've been waiting to run into some nice glass carboys

I'm using the carboys from the $11 wine you can buy at Walmart. I mean, you can buy an empty one for $6, or have it filled with cheap wine for $5 more.

[boots]

Holy cow ampgeek! Amazing info. What do you do for a living, are you a chemist?

I remember in the early 80's making hash brownies, and they had a very pronounced euphoric effect! Gave a whole new meaning to the word "stupor". So I figure that cooking it in a wort boil would work the same way.

The local liberal papers here have ads on every other page for cannibis products (for medical card holders) which will be legal soon for recreational purchase. They all seem to advertise hash oil as one of their main products, so I thought it might be an easy matter to dump a little into some homebrew.

Just a thought. I haven't smoked in about 15 years, but the imminent legalization makes me think about it again.

[boots]

Looking at that graph makes me wonder if you could get better extraction using a pressure cooker? We just got one for Christmas. But my wife would probably kill me if she caught me cooking hash in the pressure cooker....

[NickC]

Looking at that graph makes me wonder if you could get better extraction using a pressure cooker? We just got one for Christmas. But my wife would probably kill me if she caught me cooking hash in the pressure cooker....

Just tell her you're cooking a pot roast.

[JazzGuitarGimp]

I'm surprised that no one had tried brewing with hash or hash oil.

You obviuosly don't live in Trinity County! I know a guy here who does just that. I've tried it: Didn't care for it. But when it comes to beer, I'm a plain Blain. I like Dos Equis Amber and wheat beer with orange slices. Wine is another matter though - give me a nice cabernet franc and I'm a happy camper! Been thinking about trying a batch of wine this year. It looks like I can get the needed equipment for about a hundred bucks....

[ampgeek]

Pot roast!!!! Just blew my coffee out of my nose with laughter!!

However, it is clear that you are looking at it correctly. A pressure cooker would get you hotter and will improve the conversion rates marginally. But...I would worry about damaging any other desireable but thermally sensitive compounds. Fragrance and taste might suffer in the end.

And...you still haven't overcome the oil-in-water syndrome (non-polar solute in a polar solvent). Taken to the extreme, you would need to heat and pressurize to over 500 F/3200 psig (pure water supercritical point) to get the water to turn non-polar to dissolve the non-polar cannibinoids. You would burn up the organics (to the level of avilable oxygen) and likely end up with a sticky-gooey, reformed mess!

Mind you...I ain't saying it can't be done....but...it will entail something more complicated than boiling to do it with any reasonable conversion rates. As a novelty...why not...as long as you don't mind "wasting" the pre-cursors.

Molecular Biology/ChemE here. Not a true chemist...but a practicing one!!

Cheers,
Dave O.

[boots]

Good info Dave O. I'll likely have to try it just to satisfy myself.

My father in laws is a chemical engineer, but I don't feel like I can ask him for advice on this project!

[Teleguy61]

Anchor is well known for its annual Christmas ale, which has often been flavored with juniper. I'm not a big fan of these things if the odd flavor is anything but very subtle, and for me that goes for any spiced beer.

Closest thing in the USA is a Sam Adams winter beer made with cranberry. In both of these the fruit content is kept low and NOT sweet, which keeps them refreshing & good & not on the foo-foo brew chart.

This is Sam Adams Cranberry Lambic, my wife's favorite beer, made occasionally at Christmas by Sam Adams.
We have to spy it, buy it, savor.

[cbass]

I made it till 3 before I cracked one open

[martin manning]

With all this Belgian beer talk I had to go down and see what they had at the vine and hop shop... picked up a 750ml of Gueuze Cuvée Rene and a couple of 350's of Peche lambic. Teleguy, the SA Cranberry is tasty, but get your wife some real lambic sometime... She might take a shine to it!

[ampgeek]

LOL!! But your father-in-law was once a young man..and..who knows...you might just capture his interest when you start speaking his language here.

Hell, it is legal there and he may even take an interest to see if there is a profitable business in it. Interesting business opportunites often arise when sweeping changes to laws and perceptions occur. I have to believe there is a chance that he will be objective and put away his pre-conceived notions given the current state legal climate. Well....assuming that he isn't a Federal employee!

Cheers,
Dave O.

[Colossal]

With all this talk of beer and derivatives of the most noble order Urticales, we're gonna need another subforum.