Bruno schematic

[drz400]

Hi guys
With all due respect guys, in the end, Bruno's amps are the ones that have a name, are the ones reviewed by major magazines with awards, are the ones that still have resale value in the used market and are coveted by many players. If the amp is built safely, does not hum and it sounds good, perfectly parallel and perpendicular wires IMHO are just a little icing on the cake and not a necessity. If the circuit doesn't require it, frankly who cares.
Regards
PS
I am not associated with Bruno in any way shape or form. Just another opinion.
Peace

That is all very good and fine but sorry, the people who write those reviews dont know what the hell they are talking about most of the time. I would love to see a review done by a guitar playing engineer for once instead of a starstruck kid. Messy work is messy work and doesnt have anything to do with parrallel wires. Carr does a nice clean point to point.
Safety.... hmmm
Are his amps UL approved? how about at least a CE ? Has he made the commitment to saftey ? I would never buy an amp that wasnt at least CE unless I personally inspected it.

[roknroll]

Sorry, I do not agree. Attention to detail may include neatness but neatness is not a necessity. The amps that won awards apparently had no hum, no parasitic oscillation, probably no economy of function and layout but won awards against others that did have "neatness, economy of function and layout, and thoughtful planning ".
I have prototyped amps that were a complete mess inside, had no hum, no oscillation, sounded killer and were built with the same care in safety of any other build. Would I want to sell it that way? No. I would prefer it to be neater, but that is just my nature.
I feel that as along as Bruno's messy layout is repeateable from amp to amp in the same model, that it doesn't really matter.
Regards
Jack

[drz400]

Sorry, I do not agree. Attention to detail may include neatness but neatness is not a necessity. The amps that won awards apparently had no hum, no parasitic oscillation, probably no economy of function and layout but won awards against others that did have "neatness, economy of function and layout, and thoughtful planning ".
I have prototyped amps that were a complete mess inside, had no hum, no oscillation, sounded killer and were built with the same care in safety of any other build. Would I want to sell it that way? No. I would prefer it to be neater, but that is just my nature.
I feel that as along as Bruno's messy layout is repeateable from amp to amp in the same model, that it doesn't really matter.
Regards
Jack

Yes of course you can make a sloppy amp that works but when it costs this much money is that correct?
Seems like there are people having problems with the amps including the original poster who did give the maker a chance to fix it, maybe if the workmanship was neater he would have found the problem.
There is no harm in being neat and no excuse when you are a manufacturer. Neatness and good design are the cornerstone to a products reliability. Putting goop on amps is like putting epoxy on your spark plugs. It makes it a pain in the ass to service and troubleshoot. The premise of repeatable messiness is just absurd. That is like a kid saying no reason to make the bed or take a shower cause it is just going to get dirty again anyway. IF you feel comfortable buying a mess then more power to you. It is certainly much easier to trouble shoot a neatly made product than a messy one.

Are his amps UL or CE approved???

[kgreene]

Sorry, I do not agree. Attention to detail may include neatness but neatness is not a necessity. The amps that won awards apparently had no hum, no parasitic oscillation, probably no economy of function and layout but won awards against others that did have "neatness, economy of function and layout, and thoughtful planning ".
I have prototyped amps that were a complete mess inside, had no hum, no oscillation, sounded killer and were built with the same care in safety of any other build. Would I want to sell it that way? No. I would prefer it to be neater, but that is just my nature.
I feel that as along as Bruno's messy layout is repeateable from amp to amp in the same model, that it doesn't really matter.
Regards
Jack

Neatness is a virtue friend, not a "necessity". Just one more thing to observe, and it does tell you something.
I have no doubt about your claims as regards your own experience with prototypes. I too have built a few amps I could say the same about.
I've also had a few silverface Fenders that sounded killer with no hum. I also have patients that like to tell me about their relatives who smoked all their lives with no ill effects and lived to a ripe old age. Do I condone smoking? Hell no, it's obvious that it can, and often does lead to problems. Exceptions don't prove points, and awards are cheap.
Lastly, how do you know that Mr. Bruno is not having problems related to his workmanship?? My amp might be one example.
Having said that, I wonder if you are reacting to the sound of a couple of the posts which did seem a bit like certain folks were ready to gang up on Tony Bruno over "alleged" poor workmanship. For my part, I have seen inside two Bruno amps, mine and one that a buddy owns. They both look pretty good overall; I surely don't rule out an amps worthiness based on that. The sound is still the bottom line, and my UG30 does sound very good, when it's working.

[Allynmey]

roknroll, I don't care how Bruno likes to build his amps. That is a marketplace correction issue. I think most people who buy them would be horrified at the job done for the money they spent. The picture I posted of the Bruno Super 100 was enough to have my customer return the amp. Remember a few items.

1. That rats nest is unserviceable.
2. The bolts holding the board down were epoxied to the board, screws, standoffs, and chassis making it impossible to service once the warrantee expires leaving the customer with a $6200 boat anchor. You as well as anyone else would be pissed.
3. If a parasitic oscillation or hum developes, where would you start?

I've heard horror stories from people trying to get their amp fixed or upgraded to a "later" version and getting hit with a huge quote for a couple of resistors and caps.

That's my $.02

Allynmey

[philmanatee]

In the small amount of amps that I've built, when I'm planning my next one I'm always trying to make it easier to service in the future. Let's face it there are a lot of components that will need to be replaced over time in a tube amplifier. I've never heard or seen a Bruno, except for online, and I know I would never shell out that kind of money for an amp I was intending on using. If I ever did spend that kind of money I would certainly expect the builder to do whatever it took to fix whatever problem I had, even if it meant a complete rebuild. If I sent something out into the world with my name on it I would stand behind it. That's my .02! Phil

[David Root]

I've been reading this all with great interest but have stayed out of it until now, when someone mentioned the sum of $6,200 for this amp, which is as I understand it a production item, not a prototype.

I'm sorry, but Allynmey, drz400 et al and especially kgreene who has been suffering through all this (the fact that he bought his amp used has no bearing on anything) are right.

Mr. Royce of Hiwatt must be rolling in his grave at those pictures, especially the one with the Dumblegoop all over the preamp.

To me, a great amp has the same three essential qualities as does a great instrument. 1) It SOUNDS great, 2) It PLAYS great i.e. easily facilitates your tonal style(s) and properly expresses your physical playing style(s), and 3) It has mechanical integrity, i.e. is BUILT TO LAST and is designed to be readily serviced when that time comes.

Now we've all, myself included, probably built earlier amps that we're probably glad we didn't sign the inside of the chassis. Nevertheless we strive to improve our build quality with each new amp, in all three areas. But most of us are not production builders and most of us don't get $6,200 for one of our creations.

I cannot for the life of me understand the thinking that rationalizes what I saw in those pictures.

[Munga]

I've been reading this all with great interest but have stayed out of it until now, when someone mentioned the sum of $6,200 for this amp, which is as I understand it a production item, not a prototype.

I'm sorry, but Allynmey, drz400 et al and especially kgreene who has been suffering through all this (the fact that he bought his amp used has no bearing on anything) are right.

Mr. Royce of Hiwatt must be rolling in his grave at those pictures, especially the one with the Dumblegoop all over the preamp.

To me, a great amp has the same three essential qualities as does a great instrument. 1) It SOUNDS great, 2) It PLAYS great i.e. easily facilitates your tonal style(s) and properly expresses your physical playing style(s), and 3) It has mechanical integrity, i.e. is BUILT TO LAST and is designed to be readily serviced when that time comes.

Now we've all, myself included, probably built earlier amps that we're probably glad we didn't sign the inside of the chassis. Nevertheless we strive to improve our build quality with each new amp, in all three areas. But most of us are not production builders and most of us don't get $6,200 for one of our creations.

I cannot for the life of me understand the thinking that rationalizes what I saw in those pictures.

Exactly, for that kind of money, it better be perfect in every way.
IMO, the two greatest advantages of handwired amps are 1) ease of serviceability and 2) reliability. And judging from those pictures and the anecdotes in this thread, the Bruno seems to be lacking both. If you aren't paying for quality, then what are you paying for?

[stelligan]

I am not an amp builder but, was turned on to this site by someone that built an amp for me. I lurk here frequently and post occasionally. Love this forum and it inspired me to build an amp from a kit and now one from scratch. It is interesting to me that this thread started because someone's amp WAS NOT WORKING CORRECTLY. Secondarily the builder or builder's rep was NOT HELPFUL. Like I alluded to - I may not be qualified to comment regarding build quality or layout design but, I have played guitar since a child and owned many amplifiers(am now pushing 50). NONE of them had a problem - and NONE of them looked like that inside! My .02

[Bigredhog]

I build amps for a hobby. I am by trade a Master Plumber with my own company. I dont care what you do be it a tradesman, amp builder whatever. There is absolutely no excuse for sloppy work, that is what separates the true pro from the slop dogs. Justify, rationalize it how you will sloppy work is indicative of an attitude, Id never buy anything that looked like those amps do inside.

[stevlech]

I was always told that if someone decides to create something, that person is giving up time in their life to do it, so they would be wise to spend that time well and do a good job. It doesn't look like the builder of those amps values his time or reputation. Yes, I've built some stuff that looks as bad or worse, but no one ever spent any of their hard earned $$ for any of it.

My $0.02

[darrell]

I would be very up set to see that in one of my amps that is not qualty work and I would be afraid to use something in this manner. It looks very dangerous to me.. I dont mind showing you my amp porn it is my first amp build and I hope to build more. I take pride in it and it makes me pa little proud to know i built something that works is reliable to use and safe.. If i ever do have a problem with I can easly run a diagnostic on it.
As far as magazine articles go I take that crap with a grain of salt. What kind of award did this Bruno amp win?? Not that it makes any difference.


Darrell

[David Root]

Nice work Darrell! I see you like Vitamin Qs and other paper-in-oil caps too. My first one doesn't look that neat in lead dress!

[rfgordon]

Ya know, one of the side effects of the boom in boutique amps is that every Tom, Dick and Boudreaux thinks he knows what's going on inside an amp. We all know that's not the case at all. I would second the notion that the magazines are sometimes misguided in their assessments of gear. A few months ago Guitar Player did an article on a bunch of boutique amps. They included gut shots (this feeds this wierd notion in many ignorant folks). One of the amps, whose name escapes me at the moment, was criticized for having "sloppy wiring." In point of fact, it was the only TRUE point-to-point amp in the whole review! It was actually very elegantly done in true old-school fashion--no boards at all.

I have a 1965 Lafayette stereo receiver/tuner that is an absolute masterpiece of p-to-p layout. I can't even imagine how they figured out how to get all those parts (it runs 16 tubes) in there in the days before computer-aided drafting!

My first amp's guts looked like toddler day at the spagetti factory!! Every one since then has been neater and, I hope, more elegant, because I have come to realize that better layout equals a better amp.

My point in all this is that, to echo my fellow builders, there is more to an amp than just "working." I think some of the boutique builders out there are just trying to cram too much stuff and features into their amps, and they end up getting sloppy. If a player needs an F-16 multi-role fighter for an amp, buy a Mesa Boogie. That's what pcb amps are good for: lots of bells and whistles. And there's a place for that. But for the tone, the whole tone, and nothin' but the tone, simple and elegant wins every time.

[David Root]

Well said.