#102 "System" In a Box Build

[aflynt]

Here you go Horacio!

https://soundcloud.com/aflynt/trufate-b ... s-12-22-12

This doesn't completely fulfill your request as it's my old #102 build with outboard D'Lator, and I'm not quite sure I'd classify this rendition as "Fusion" (more like wounded-weekend-warrior-Blues-Rock ). This one turned out a bit rough, as we hadn't played it in a few years. We used to do a cool version where the other guitarist and I would trade back and forth at the end, but sadly he hasn't been able to make a lot of the jobs lately. You're encouraged to fast-forward over the vocal parts. If Bob Dylan and Lou Reed somehow had a tone-deaf love child it'd probably give me a run for my money on vocals.

I think the clip does help illustrate the sonic differences between my two #102 builds, though. The clip was recorded the same way as the "Help The Poor" clip above (iPhone on top of amp) with the same guitar. The old build in this clip seems to be a bit flatter sounding with more apparent IM distortion.

Clip Details
Strat with Lollar Specials and passive mid boost into #102 derived build with Precision PS and NOS Twin iron, OD channel on, volume: 5 1/2, treble: 4, mid: 5, bass: 3, drive: 4, od level: 2 1/2, master: 7 1/2, presence: 5, bright: off, mid: off, rock: on, with D'lator in loop (send: 12:00, return: 10:30), through 2 Celestion G12-65 loaded Forte 3D1x12 cabs. There was a Visual Volume pedal and MXR Carbon copy in the loop. The rhythm parts and first solo are with the strat bridge and neck pickups (tele style) and PAB Off, the second lead part is the bridge pickup with the PAB on. The mid boost on the guitar is on throughout the song. Like the previous clip, the iPhone was just sitting on my amp head so the guitar sound is slightly duller than it was out front and also much louder relative to the other instruments.

-Aaron

[alvarezh]

Well, close enough Aaron, of course I would of have prefered you "sang" the whole song with your guitar, but hey, who am I to be so demanding!

Yes, agreed, the "older D' " is slightly darker.

Will be sending you a PM soon.

All the best.

[bluesfendermanblues]

@Aflynt, Have you tried the amp at higher (than master at 2½) volumes. I wondering if the reverb still has enough clean headroom.

I have received the PCBs from OSHPark and is getting ready to build a couple of reverbs, but want to make sure it has enough voltage at tap.

[aflynt]

@Aflynt, Have you tried the amp at higher (than master at 2½) volumes. I wondering if the reverb still has enough clean headroom.

I have received the PCBs from OSHPark and is getting ready to build a couple of reverbs, but want to make sure it has enough voltage at tap.

Well... Sorry to be long winded about my answer, but it's a bit more complex than that...

What WAS the master in the #102 layout in the files section is just a fixed voltage divider set at about 7 1/2 (assuming a 15% taper Alpha pot) in my build - 560k in and 470k to ground. The Dumbleator loop send knob is on the back of the amp and I run it at about 4. I run the clean volume around 6 3/4 so combined with the fixed divider it's putting a fairly hot signal on the reverb which is located last in the chain in the D'Lator loop and it still stays clean. The reverb WILL distort if I put the clean volume on 10 and the D'Lator send above 7. I never run it that way, though. At that setting the D'lator return stage is clipping pretty heavily too.

The actual master on my amp IS the D'Lator return level and it's post reverb so that knob really has no bearing on reverb headroom. I have run it as high as 5 on jobs which is pretty much full clean volume on this amp the way I set it.

Bottom line... If you're running the reverb in a buffered loop and keep the preamp output to a reasonable level you won't have any issues. If you stick it in a passive loop (stock signal access jacks) you might run into problems when you crank the amp.

-Aaron

[hans-jörg]

Hi Aaron,

when I saw your implementation of the reverb modul in the 102 I remebered that I done the same with a small rehersal combo. But in the front.
The combo changed to an other amp and the Belton lays somwhere around.
So you gave me this grate input to do the same like you.
I have in my 102 the Dumblater in an extra chassis down at the bottom. Also a independent PT.
My question: wich PS you take? The 6,3 V for the heather of the one tube?
This could be easy done: one string to recti diodes, cap, LM7809, e voila. Or is the 9,1V too low for a 9 V regulator?
I.e. an other string for the bypass switching relais if no 9V relais available (like with me, have only 12V and 6V. A LM7806 for rel.

How you (or someone else) done it?

Best

Hans-Jörg

Edit: Oh, I saw now your pictures. You have it in the main Amp, so the situation is different.
But could you give me an advice?

[bluesfendermanblues]

@Aflynt, Have you tried the amp at higher (than master at 2½) volumes. I wondering if the reverb still has enough clean headroom.

I have received the PCBs from OSHPark and is getting ready to build a couple of reverbs, but want to make sure it has enough voltage at tap.

Well... Sorry to be long winded about my answer, but it's a bit more complex than that...

What WAS the master in the #102 layout in the files section is just a fixed voltage divider set at about 7 1/2 (assuming a 15% taper Alpha pot) in my build - 560k in and 470k to ground. The Dumbleator loop send knob is on the back of the amp and I run it at about 4. I run the clean volume around 6 3/4 so combined with the fixed divider it's putting a fairly hot signal on the reverb which is located last in the chain in the D'Lator loop and it still stays clean. The reverb WILL distort if I put the clean volume on 10 and the D'Lator send above 7. I never run it that way, though. At that setting the D'lator return stage is clipping pretty heavily too.

The actual master on my amp IS the D'Lator return level and it's post reverb so that knob really has no bearing on reverb headroom. I have run it as high as 5 on jobs which is pretty much full clean volume on this amp the way I set it.

Bottom line... If you're running the reverb in a buffered loop and keep the preamp output to a reasonable level you won't have any issues. If you stick it in a passive loop (stock signal access jacks) you might run into problems when you crank the amp.

-Aaron

Thanks for you detailed and thorough answer. I must admit I forgot that you've hardwired the mastervol (560k/470k) and use the D-lator return as master (just like Henry does in his Redplate amps)

I will go ahead and build the reverbs and implement them in my amps with build-in D-lators.

However, I might try to put them in parallel with the D-lator Loop's send/return in order not the have the main signal passing through the reverbs IC's. So I'll only add the reverb to the amp tone and do the mixing of the two signals with the D-lator....even if I'll probably not be able hear any real difference in tone in real life .

At the moment I use the Suhr Minimix II circuit together with external D-lators. The signal pass through IC's and its completely transperent. I'm sure your reverb design are completely transperent as well, but I'll try them in parallel just the same. I'll keep you posted.

BTW Once again thanks for the PCB layout. The OCHPark service work like a charm. Its fairly inexpensive and fast as well.

[aflynt]

Thanks for you detailed and thorough answer. I must admit I forgot that you've hardwired the mastervol (560k/470k) and use the D-lator return as master (just like Henry does in his Redplate amps)

I will go ahead and build the reverbs and implement them in my amps with build-in D-lators.

However, I might try to put them in parallel with the D-lator Loop's send/return in order not the have the main signal passing through the reverbs IC's. So I'll only add the reverb to the amp tone and do the mixing of the two signals with the D-lator....even if I'll probably not be able hear any real difference in tone in real life .

At the moment I use the Suhr Minimix II circuit together with external D-lators. The signal pass through IC's and its completely transperent. I'm sure your reverb design are completely transperent as well, but I'll try them in parallel just the same. I'll keep you posted.

BTW Once again thanks for the PCB layout. The OCHPark service work like a charm. Its fairly inexpensive and fast as well.

You'll probably need to mess around with the circuit to get the reverb 100% wet. As it sits it'll never get wet enough if you run it in parallel.

-Aaron

[aflynt]

Hi Aaron,

when I saw your implementation of the reverb modul in the 102 I remebered that I done the same with a small rehersal combo. But in the front.
The combo changed to an other amp and the Belton lays somwhere around.
So you gave me this grate input to do the same like you.
I have in my 102 the Dumblater in an extra chassis down at the bottom. Also a independent PT.
My question: wich PS you take? The 6,3 V for the heather of the one tube?
This could be easy done: one string to recti diodes, cap, LM7809, e voila. Or is the 9,1V too low for a 9 V regulator?
I.e. an other string for the bypass switching relais if no 9V relais available (like with me, have only 12V and 6V. A LM7806 for rel.

How you (or someone else) done it?

Best

Hans-Jörg

Edit: Oh, I saw now your pictures. You have it in the main Amp, so the situation is different.
But could you give me an advice?

In my amp with an outboard D'Lator I just wound up sticking a One Spot in there with double sided tape.

-Aaron

[hans-jörg]

In my amp with an outboard D'Lator I just wound up sticking a One Spot in there with double sided tape.

-Aaron

Hi,

you mean I run it too complicated?

Hans-Jörg

[bluesfendermanblues]

Thanks for you detailed and thorough answer. I must admit I forgot that you've hardwired the mastervol (560k/470k) and use the D-lator return as master (just like Henry does in his Redplate amps)

I will go ahead and build the reverbs and implement them in my amps with build-in D-lators.

However, I might try to put them in parallel with the D-lator Loop's send/return in order not the have the main signal passing through the reverbs IC's. So I'll only add the reverb to the amp tone and do the mixing of the two signals with the D-lator....even if I'll probably not be able hear any real difference in tone in real life .

At the moment I use the Suhr Minimix II circuit together with external D-lators. The signal pass through IC's and its completely transperent. I'm sure your reverb design are completely transperent as well, but I'll try them in parallel just the same. I'll keep you posted.

BTW Once again thanks for the PCB layout. The OCHPark service work like a charm. Its fairly inexpensive and fast as well.

You'll probably need to mess around with the circuit to get the reverb 100% wet. As it sits it'll never get wet enough if you run it in parallel.

-Aaron

Yes, I will try to
- leave out R6 (or put on a switch) in order to get 100% wet and
- convert r10 to an output pot together with
- a resistor instead of the present mix pot.

That should do it. Plus feeding the input of the PCB from the send pot.

I'll give it a try and post the results to you.

Would you use the same Belton model no. again?

[aflynt]

In my amp with an outboard D'Lator I just wound up sticking a One Spot in there with double sided tape.

-Aaron

Hi,

you mean I run it too complicated?

Hans-Jörg

Not at all! If you come up with a more elegant solution then all the better!

-Aaron

[aflynt]

Yes, I will try to
- leave out R6 (or put on a switch) in order to get 100% wet and
- convert r10 to an output pot together with
- a resistor instead of the present mix pot.

That should do it. Plus feeding the input of the PCB from the send pot.

I'll give it a try and post the results to you.

Would you use the same Belton model no. again?

Sounds like a good plan. I like the new medium brick a lot, especially with the filters configured with those cutoff frequencies. I'd like to mess around with the small and long models and feedback eventually though.

The old bricks are nice too, but quite large and don't have the same "shimmering" modulation to them when cranked. I run two of the old ones in series in my old D'Lator build and it's definitely a cool sound in it's own right.

-Aaron

[hans-jörg]

Hi,
I saw now that my worrys about the right PS voltage for the Belton ist useless, because it works with 5V (!) regulated by a 7805.
I have now there 8,8 volts and thats absolutly enough

Cant wait to connect the last wires.

Best

Hans-Jörg

[aflynt]

Here's a video of the amp now that it's burned in for about 5 months playing regularly. In the last couple weeks it seems to have taken on a smoother, more focused quality. Hopefully it's not just the power tubes dying.

http://youtu.be/Rpkxz9NE9I0

-Aaron

[ToneMerc]

Aaron, you got it man!

TM