Weber Mass 200 versus 1950s Tweed Amps * OK or BAD to use???

[Toppscore]

Hi! Just got my 1954 5D6 4x10 Tweed Bassman back from the doctor's office.
A new set of six front "Sprague Atom" teeth
Add the two NOS 1954 GE-5Y3 rectifiers and this baby cranks louder than ever before!!!
No need to have my 100w amps with a 40-watter like this cranking beast!
Also, my 40w 1960 6G4 2x10 Super Amp is freaking loud as well.


Seriously, I set the Bassman's volume at "3" on the
1954 real cool scale of "12" with the "1954 Presence" set to "0"
which generated tones that are awesomely clean, as expected.

What I did not expect at "3" volume was the loudness and tones
when setting the "1954 Presence" dimed to twelve
Please, how do you "DIME-10" an amp that has "TWELVE-12" or 20% more grunt???

But, with the Presence at 12 and the volume at 3, this Mother of All Rock Amps
was breaking-up with very cool distortion!!! No effects at all. It has early P10Rs.
Does anyone's Tweed amps break up at "3" volume?




Anyway, gotta clean-up my enthusiasm and ask the BIG QUESTION

I wanna play this amp, a lot.
I purchased a Weber Mass 200 attenuator that works great on my Fender
Blackface amps that feature easily accessible 1/4" speaker plugs.

But, I do wonder about using the Weber Mass 200 on an older Tweed amp
that is still pushing an incredibly strong output. Some techs claim quality attenuators
cause zero problems when applying a dummy load. Yet, some techs
state the output transformer will blow and affect other components.


What do expert Tweed owners think, believe or have experienced?

My goal is to play this amp loud, but attenuated if it is OK to do so.
Is that a good thing?


Thanks for your responses. Toppscore



.

[billyz]

If it is the Cathode biased one, then pull one of the 5y3's and run a pair of 6v6's .. Those Output Trannys are not over rated to run full out into a load for very long. you will probably toast it.

[Toppscore]

If it is the Cathode biased one, then pull one of the 5y3's and run a pair of 6v6's .. Those Output Trannys are not over rated to run full out into a load for very long. you will probably toast it.

Thanks, Billy! I was hoping to attenate "at will", not permanently bring it down.
If that is possible. Hence the big question.

As mentioned, low volumes is extremely loud with this Bassman.
It is NOT (corrected) cathode biased
I would never crank the volume to max, and thankfully
it breaks up very early. But, way too loud for this neighborhood.
Geeeeezzzz, I'd never play my 100-watters at home without the Weber Mass 200.

OK. Maybe attenuation is not good. Thanks for the comment. Toppscore

[Firestorm]

If it is the Cathode biased one, then pull one of the 5y3's and run a pair of 6v6's .. Those Output Trannys are not over rated to run full out into a load for very long. you will probably toast it.

Thanks, Billy! I was hoping to attenate "at will", not permanently bring it down.
If that is possible. Hence the big question.

As mentioned, low volumes is extremely loud with this Bassman.
It is cathode biased.
I would never crank the volume to max, and thankfully
it breaks up very early. But, way too loud for this neighborhood.
Geeeeezzzz, I'd never play my 100-watters at home without the Weber Mass 200.

OK. Maybe attenuation is not good. Thanks for the comment. Toppscore

Careful there. Your 1954 5D6 IS NOT cathode biased.

[trane34]

I'll trade you a THD univalve for it. It has a built in attenuator.

[Toppscore]

Careful there. Your 1954 5D6 IS NOT cathode biased.

Right.
The earlier 5B6's were Correct

[Toppscore]

I'll trade you a THD univalve for it. It has a built in attenuator.

Haha -
Just yesterday I was checking out the Mesa Boogie Triple Rectifer amps. Go for those

[Firestorm]

Careful there. Your 1954 5D6 IS NOT cathode biased.

Right.
The earlier 5B6's were Correct

Correct. And every other Fender until this one.

[billyz]

Since you have the Fixed Biased version you could try the THD yellow jackets.

These and the Attenuator will change your tone anyway. I would just use a nice OD pedal .

Have you tried the BMF " Great Wide Open" ?

You could run 12ax7's turn the volume down and it might get you there to.
I always run 12ax7's in my tweeds for earlier breakup and keep the 12ay7 for when I need more volume and headroom.

[Toppscore]

Since you have the Fixed Biased version you could try the THD yellow jackets.
These and the Attenuator will change your tone anyway. I would just use a nice OD pedal .
Have you tried the BMF " Great Wide Open" ?
You could run 12ax7's turn the volume down and it might get you there to.
I always run 12ax7's in my tweeds for earlier breakup and keep the 12ay7 for when I need more volume and headroom.

Billy: You have interesting ideas. Would love to see/hear your amp collection

Mine are 1950s/1960s vintage amps. No desire to mess with the tube line-up.
I use a 1981 MXR Overdrive pedal (very infrequently).
Breakup is not the issue (althought the Weber Mass 200) achieves breakup
at lower overall volumes, anyway.
Just wanna lower the "volume" to bedroom levels for neighborhood sanity
~ and not mess-up a vintage amp. Appears the Mass 200 will do the job.

[billyz]

I used to have an amp collection. I have owned almost every tweed , brown , blonde and blackface amp Fender ever made. Partly how I learned to work on amps. I also had the good fortune to meet some old timers who schooled me.

After restoring so many fenders you can actually begin to understand the progression of thought that Leo fenders mind went through.

BTW, The BMF Great Wide Open will make your MXR sound like cheese.

[Toppscore]

I used to have an amp collection. I have owned almost every tweed , brown , blonde and blackface amp Fender ever made. Partly how I learned to work on amps. I also had the good fortune to meet some old timers who schooled me. After restoring so many fenders you can actually begin to understand the progression of thought that Leo fenders mind went through. BTW, The BMF Great Wide Open will make your MXR sound like cheese.

Wow! Read your website auto-biography. Very cool.
Do you still play The Seeds' "Pushin' To Hard":?:


Question. I just received my 1954 5D6 4x10 Bassman out of the shop.
Ever own or worked on a 1954 5D6 or 1955 5D6A???
Anyway, a couple of filter caps went bad.

The pro amp repair replaced all six with Sprague Atoms.
I asked him if all six needed replacing as my forum friends
all tend to claim only replace what is needed.

He responded it was all six or nothing as he did not want to do a "half" job.
These filter caps are nearly 60 years old and the set worked until 2013.
He always returns the originals.

My thinking is that removing the two bad filter caps and removing
the four working caps ~ has its positives ~ as I'll not have to keep
checking and worrying about the old four caps failing.


My question to you is:
Within your website bio, you stated you'd keep everything as original as possible.
Would you remove all six filter caps if only two failed and four still performed?
Or, would you leave the four ORIGINAL working caps installed?

What do you think? Keep it original or pre-plan maintence and problem avoidance?

Toppscore



BTW, after reading your bio, and understanding the amount of amps
you've touched, would you put the Yellow Jackets on early 1950s vintage
tweed older Fender amps?



.

[billyz]

I already posted about the caps replacement on your other thread. The yellow jackets will do no harm to your amp. Personally I would not use them as it will change the sound alot. I am not a big fan of attenuators , they can do alot of damage and screw the sound as well. I recently encountered a Carol Ann that was blowing fuses and traced the problem to the ALEX Attenuator . After consulting with Alan Philips we had the owner stop using the ALEX and no more fuses have blown.

I have melted the Plastic output jacks off a Marshall using an attenuator. I use them on my bench all the time but only briefly to save my hearing. Alan Does the same, the only one I can recommend is the THD Hotplate as it seem to be the most benign to the health of the amp in practice .

I have built several Airbrake type attenuators with a few of my mods added to improve the sound but they still suck at extreme bedroom levels.

One of the best sounding attenuators I have built was based on the L PAD with an inductor and capacitor , but the power is limited to 50w .

Personally I prefer to use a good OD box for bedroom thangs. "Save the amp".

[Toppscore]

BillyZ. Good idea on the low-power OD usage. Thanks.

Have you investigated the Weber Mass 200.
I have it and it is designed to run a four hour gig, all night if desired.
Check it out. It uses a speaker motor instead of resistors
and has several rheostat controls, plus the headphone option.


Check it out:
https://taweber.powweb.com/weber/mass200.htm

A lot different, unique and more flexible than attenuators

[rp]

Stop worrying play the shit out of it, one day the new caps will be old caps Just don't mess with the old coupling caps unless necessary.

Now that your amp has the cajones to blow up your old speakers, it will. Be careful. Maybe best invest in some new 4x10s for those wild nights? Or best have an ext 4x10 to switch too?

I've seen several shows in small clubs where the lead's amp went pfft in the middle of a hot solo, can't say for sure but when I looked there's always an attenuator on top. One show guy was sounding killer through an attenuated Blues Breaker reissue after it died he switched to a Blues Jr. Less oomph but sounded just as good - go figure.