seperate clean/OD masters

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mat
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Location: Helsinki, Finland

Re: seperate clean/OD masters

Post by mat »

I wouldn't give up on your express, they are very picky about what tubes sound good in them. Phil
I've tried svetlana6L6, JJ6V6 and JJEL34's in there. No luck. I like the mild drive, just when it is breaking but not the full blast sound - souns like a pedal to me :shock:

But I will definitely get back on the express when my HRM's harshness is tamed. Maybe put the choke in the express..
mat
dogears
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Re: seperate clean/OD masters

Post by dogears »

Hey Mat,

What speakers? Also, what pickups? I tried an axe with an alnico V bridge and it was shrill. Going back to any of my guitars totally fixed the problem.
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mat
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Re: seperate clean/OD masters

Post by mat »

dogears wrote:Hey Mat,

What speakers? Also, what pickups? I tried an axe with an alnico V bridge and it was shrill. Going back to any of my guitars totally fixed the problem.
Cab is DIY 2x12 with one Red White and Blues connected. Guitar is DIY http://koti.welho.com/mtiilama/DIY%20Guitars.htm 'Julia' with Schaller bridge humbucker - works wonderfully with the nonHRM witth 6L6's in it.
I also tried the HRM with strats single coils. Amazingly harsh and trebly :cry:

Any suggestion to tame the brightness of the OD ? I will try to play the amp as much as possible (summer holiday :D ) to see if it would better by time.

Thanks,
mat
philmanatee
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Re: seperate clean/OD masters

Post by philmanatee »

mat wrote:
I wouldn't give up on your express, they are very picky about what tubes sound good in them. Phil
I've tried svetlana6L6, JJ6V6 and JJEL34's in there. No luck. I like the mild drive, just when it is breaking but not the full blast sound - souns like a pedal to me :shock:

But I will definitely get back on the express when my HRM's harshness is tamed. Maybe put the choke in the express..
I didn't like my express at all with modern tubes, pre's included. Phil
llemtt
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d-lator remove

Post by llemtt »

mat

remove completely the internal D-lator from the circuit and see if things improve

and please post detailed pics of you build, it has something wrong!

Teo
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mat
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Re: seperate clean/OD masters

Post by mat »

philmanatee wrote:
mat wrote:
I wouldn't give up on your express, they are very picky about what tubes sound good in them. Phil
I've tried svetlana6L6, JJ6V6 and JJEL34's in there. No luck. I like the mild drive, just when it is breaking but not the full blast sound - souns like a pedal to me :shock:

But I will definitely get back on the express when my HRM's harshness is tamed. Maybe put the choke in the express..
I didn't like my express at all with modern tubes, pre's included. Phil
I dont have money to buy nos tubes on every socket :? But I have few euros to buy some more components :wink: tweaktweaktweak :twisted:
mat
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mat
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Re: d-lator remove

Post by mat »

llemtt wrote:mat

remove completely the internal D-lator from the circuit and see if things improve

and please post detailed pics of you build, it has something wrong!

Teo
I have dpdt-switch that bypasses the d-lator from the circuit. Eaven bypassed the feel of the amp is too 'shrill' and 'hard'. It has happened twice that the sound had dissappeared complitely ? After power of and on it is working again. I must check all the solder joints again.

I got advice that removed the harshness guite a bit but the main character of the amp is not yet what it should be I think :?

I like the clean sound alot but the OD is not (yet) creamy at all :(

I'll open the amp asap and take some close up photos.

Thanks,
mat
hipbluescat
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Re: seperate clean/OD masters

Post by hipbluescat »

Matt

Congratulations on a great build.

I hope some can clarifying these few points before I embark on my build.

Are the value of the diodes you used 1 amps 1000 volts ? (1N4007)

What type, model and brand of relays are used ?

Are the yellow resistors used carbon film ?

Are the Vishay Dale RN65 metal film the brown coloured ones ?

Is the yellow wire running from the board located next to the transformer with the 56 k resistor links up to the bias point were the pair of 220k resistors join ?

Next to the output jack there is a switch with two resistors in parallel that are missing there values and have ?? on them. Does the switch change the amp from a 100 watts to 50 watts ? What should the value of the resistors be and how should they be hooked up in the circuit ?

On the top right hand side board is the NTE 152 a:-
1. Silicon Complementary NPN Transistor. Audio Power Amplifier, Switch.
NTE 152 OR
2. NTE152 : Silicon Complementary Transistors Audio Power Amplifier, Switch
On the same board what are the small blue oval components - one is located next to the 2K7 resistor - what are these components and what is there value ? Is there any brand that you use specifically for these ?

On the lower board there is also a capacitor that is green in colour is this value 500 pf ? On the same board are the value of the trim pots 20 k, 1M and 250 k ?

On the main board were the coupling capacitors are located are all other points that are not connected to any other components actually connected to earth ?

Where did you get the chassis and boards from ?

What type of transformers did you use ?

Regards
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mat
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Re: seperate clean/OD masters

Post by mat »

Congratulations on a great build.
Thank You, clips will follow imediatly when I get the OD to work in a right way.


I hope some can clarifying these few points before I embark on my build.
I'll try on some of the questions.
Are the value of the diodes you used 1 amps 1000 volts ? (1N4007)
Yes, they are 1N4007.
What type, model and brand of relays are used ?
Takamishava RY5W-K
Are the yellow resistors used carbon film ?
Yes.
Are the Vishay Dale RN65 metal film the brown coloured ones ?
Yes.
Is the yellow wire running from the board located next to the transformer with the 56 k resistor links up to the bias point were the pair of 220k resistors join ?
Sorry, I don't quite get this one. The 220k's (not connected) get their bias voltage from two seperate trimmers. Yellow wire was used. Btw. What picture are You referring to ?
Next to the output jack there is a switch with two resistors in parallel that are missing there values and have ?? on them. Does the switch change the amp from a 100 watts to 50 watts ? What should the value of the resistors be and how should they be hooked up in the circuit ?
Yes, I supose that is the half power switch. Sorry, dont know the values.

On the top right hand side board is the NTE 152 a:-
1. Silicon Complementary NPN Transistor. Audio Power Amplifier, Switch.
NTE 152 OR
2. NTE152 : Silicon Complementary Transistors Audio Power Amplifier, Switch
No idea, I used 2n4416.
On the same board what are the small blue oval components - one is located next to the 2K7 resistor - what are these components and what is there value ? Is there any brand that you use specifically for these ?
They are 5uF electrolytic caps.
On the lower board there is also a capacitor that is green in colour is this value 500 pf ? On the same board are the value of the trim pots 20 k, 1M and 250 k ?
Correct (the 500pF is ceramic).
On the main board were the coupling capacitors are located are all other points that are not connected to any other components actually connected to earth ?
Yes there are few groud line missing. If assume Normster has not finished this build/layout yet. Might be busy with the D-Lites :D
Where did you get the chassis and boards from ?
http://www.uraltone.com/kauppa/index.ph ... a7b19f4371
What type of transformers did you use ?
PT=TV19 and OT=NSC018343

cheers,
mat
llemtt
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Re: seperate clean/OD masters

Post by llemtt »

Thanks Mat great pics! I promised I'll study very carefully.

At first look I can't understand if you are using coax on the OD section, there must be 4 "at least one foot" pieces of coax

1 from v2a to drive
2 from drive to v2b
3 from v2b (tone stack out) to OD volume
4 from OD volume to relay (this one is critical!!!)

then I see a strange connection of a small cap between plates of P.I., I can't see if it correctly goes plate to plate (btw it should not be there because no oscillation are expected in a good ODS build)

but what I suspect the most is an high-freq leakage from the OD section into some other part of the circuit, can you take the OD TS board of and shot a pict? there is a critical section!!!

anyway you putted to much stuff in that crowded chassis -> you can't !!! HAD too was saying so (If I can recover the interview I'll send it to you)

Teo
llemtt
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Re: d-lator remove

Post by llemtt »

mat wrote:
llemtt wrote:mat

remove completely the internal D-lator from the circuit and see if things improve
I have dpdt-switch that bypasses the d-lator from the circuit.
not good at all, small switches do leak at high freq!!!

take your solder and remove

Teo
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mat
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Re: seperate clean/OD masters

Post by mat »

Thanks Mat great pics! I promised I'll study very carefully.
Thank You :D
At first look I can't understand if you are using coax on the OD section, there must be 4 "at least one foot" pieces of coax

1 from v2a to drive
2 from drive to v2b
3 from v2b (tone stack out) to OD volume
4 from OD volume to relay (this one is critical!!!)
I have shielded wire on input to V1, V1b to volume, drive pot viper and master viper to d-lator. I read somewhere that these are good places to put the shielded, but I can change them. The amp is very silent and actually has more highs than needed :?
then I see a strange connection of a small cap between plates of P.I., I can't see if it correctly goes plate to plate (btw it should not be there because no oscillation are expected in a good ODS build)
This is a mod that I tried but it did not affect the brightness of the amp either way.
but what I suspect the most is an high-freq leakage from the OD section into some other part of the circuit, can you take the OD TS board of and shot a pict? there is a critical section!!!
That is exactly what I have suspected also (with my very limited skills :oops: ) Ok, here they are:
http://www.pichotel.com/pic/16028B31e/140647.jpg
http://www.pichotel.com/pic/16028B31e/140648.jpg
http://www.pichotel.com/pic/16028B31e/140649.jpg
anyway you putted to much stuff in that crowded chassis -> you can't !!! HAD too was saying so (If I can recover the interview I'll send it to you)
Would be really nice to read the interview. Yes, I know it is too crowded but have to say that some original photos of the dumbles show that they are quite crowded themself sometimes also :D
not good at all, small switches do leak at high freq!!!

take your solder and remove
Do You mean I should put in a bigger dpdt or take the small one away ?

Big thanks for Your answers,
mat
llemtt
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Re: seperate clean/OD masters

Post by llemtt »

Ok Mat

two things

first you need all those 4 coax in the OD section or you have to add small capacitors to achieve the same effect -> one foot of coax is something between 33-47pF, you can solder them directly on drive and OD volume pots (one cap from hot to ground and one cap from wiper to ground)

then a larger switch is better but it also leaks and since you are debugging your amp I strongly suggest to desolder and rewire your amp without the D-lator stuff but before you can try this test:

turn your OD volume completely off, then master maxed and D-lator return maxed, then play -> in case you hear something coming out from the speaker you surely have a leakage

Teo
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mat
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Re: seperate clean/OD masters

Post by mat »

llemtt wrote:Ok Mat

two things

first you need all those 4 coax in the OD section or you have to add small capacitors to achieve the same effect -> one foot of coax is something between 33-47pF, you can solder them directly on drive and OD volume pots (one cap from hot to ground and one cap from wiper to ground)

then a larger switch is better but it also leaks and since you are debugging your amp I strongly suggest to desolder and rewire your amp without the D-lator stuff but before you can try this test:

turn your OD volume completely off, then master maxed and D-lator return maxed, then play -> in case you hear something coming out from the speaker you surely have a leakage

Teo
First thing tomorrow, THANKS!
mat
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