I really noticed how loose and woolly OD tone is (with that hollow body)..To me this is a pretty good example of what you get when you up the values of both drive and level pots,( in 183 case to 250k)...This could IMO be why some people like the 183 OD tone (I see no real magic here)..If a thicker fatter lower mids and more toothed breakup on the lower notes is your thang by all means knock yourself out.. For me I started there and was there for a while but after going back to the stock 100kL on both in my 102 I found it focused the overall tone cut through the mix better and more importantly helped with sustain and bloom factor.. I am not saying one is better than the other as my MM has a 250k Level in it and love the amp.. Just thought I would point out the differences that I notice..You can decide
Take Care All
Tony
" The psychics on my bench is the same as Dumble'"
As per my experience upping the pots to 250K, or the input trimmer to 350K, is a step in the wrong direction...by which I mean away from smoothness. In all fariness to 183, however, the video you posted is not an example of an amp that would make me turn my head. I realize some people may like that type of sound, but to me it's a good example of gratuitous distortion: to much buzz but no chirp, no bloom, no sustain, etc. -- kind of reminds me of John Scofied's tone, who to me sounds best playing clean, and without chorus for chissakes! However, the very same in different hands:
I really noticed how loose and woolly OD tone is (with that hollow body)..To me this is a pretty good example of what you get when you up the values of both drive and level pots,( in 183 case to 250k)...This could IMO be why some people like the 183 OD tone (I see no real magic here)..If a thicker fatter lower mids and more toothed breakup on the lower notes is your thang by all means knock yourself out.. For me I started there and was there for a while but after going back to the stock 100kL on both in my 102 I found it focused the overall tone cut through the mix better and more importantly helped with sustain and bloom factor.. I am not saying one is better than the other as my MM has a 250k Level in it and love the amp.. Just thought I would point out the differences that I notice..You can decide
Gil
Thanks for jumping in..
For me your style of playing definately does not lend it's self to that fuzzier type OD sound.. I love the tone you get BTW..
In some respects I like the expressiveness that the lower mids breakup brings..(at times) Like a Hammond organ spinning up..One of the things I've tried to work on is controlling that low mid breakup..Since I don't use a pick using my fingers makes it easier for me to control pick attack and smooth things out a bit..So far it's been a real challenge though ...
All The Best!!
Tony
" The psychics on my bench is the same as Dumble'"
I was noticing one thing in the video, though: the overdrive seems to have been dialed a bit on the low side and it's almost like the player is muscling the amp. Perhaps dialing in a little more distortion and backing off on the touch would be an alternate option to approach that particular amp. It could also be the guitar wasn't the best match for the amp for smoothness. RF can get the low end to break up and fart out in a very expressive way, reatining roundness and sweetness to the sound, and he can also hold back and get the amp to sound smooth. Maybe that's what I'm missing in that clip.
Gil
PS: Thanks for the kind words.
talbany wrote:Gil
Thanks for jumping in..
For me your style of playing definately does not lend it's self to that fuzzier type OD sound.. I love the tone you get BTW..
In some respects I like the expressiveness that the lower mids breakup brings..(at times) Like a Hammond organ spinning up..One of the things I've tried to work on is controlling that low mid breakup..Since I don't use a pick using my fingers makes it easier for me to control pick attack and smooth things out a bit..So far it's been a real challenge though ...
Gil
Yeah I've noticed the same thing about Robben being able to control this as well..I remember hearing some Jing Chi stuff where he gets that farty fuzz thang goin on...so perhaps the way to approach it is build a 102 and find the rightly gain settings with the right guitar and muscle the amp would perhaps. Be a better way to approach this!!..I'll try and find that clip later and post it and perhaps we can figure this cool effect out!!
Tony
" The psychics on my bench is the same as Dumble'"
The hollowbody does give a nice woolly tone, the OD doesn't have a lot of clarity in the bottom end. Is that the guitar? Or the amount of gain he is using?
Good post Tony, as I am trying to learn more about how the pots affect the balance of these amps.
Just my two cents
Matt is a killer player & a truly nice guy
Two things to know
One Matt does not know how to dial in or take command of a dumble amp , Mostly because he loves this fender's
So I had to give a quick course on how to use it
I also set the tones , But most importanly you have to know how to use your guitar setting to bring out the true tune D's have to offer
And two the 1958 ES335 helps a lot
BTW Cab wasn't a good match for the demo
1/12 fane
On the other hand Nicky likes to crank everything up and blast off
You make a valid point. Still, I daresay that Nicky probably sounds good through that amp with any guitar... There are a few videos of a few folks playing 183 out there and Nicky is the only person I find that makes a special connection with the amp.
Cheers,
Gil
Structo wrote:I like that tone with Nicky but, he is playing P90's which are single coils.
I don't really care for my amp with singles.
I'm glad I kept a couple dual humbucker guitars because they sound the best to me.
ayan wrote:You make a valid point. Still, I daresay that Nicky probably sounds good through that amp with any guitar... There are a few videos of a few folks playing 183 out there and Nicky is the only person I find that makes a special connection with the amp.
Cheers,
Gil
Structo wrote:I like that tone with Nicky but, he is playing P90's which are single coils.
I don't really care for my amp with singles.
I'm glad I kept a couple dual humbucker guitars because they sound the best to me.
amplifiednation wrote:The hollowbody does give a nice woolly tone, the OD doesn't have a lot of clarity in the bottom end. Is that the guitar? Or the amount of gain he is using?
Good post Tony, as I am trying to learn more about how the pots affect the balance of these amps.
Thats because of the Cab And speaker 1/12 Fane
Last edited by Mac Daddy on Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Here is a pretty cool clip of Robben controlling 102 IMO..You can hear the chirp clarity on the top end like Gil mentions in spades!!.. The tone gets snarley on the lower registers or when he really starts to muscle it or wants to accent a certain phrase or passage..Like the double stops (around 1:50)and the amp fuzzes up nicely..Really expressive!!..What can you say but tasteful!! IMO
I think most folks steer towards 183 because of its versatility. Most of the other voicing's (HRM, 102, BM, low plate classic, 2nd gen) are kinda only made for a certain playing style, genre style, and guitar choice.
My Quinn SDO 183 sounds great with whatever guitar you throw at it. I'm die hard Gibson LP (with buckers) player and recently while waiting for a new guitar to be built, I've been using a LP Jr. inspired guitar ( made by Rob Dixon at Prairiewood Guitars) with a single Fralin p90 in the bridge and I get through gigs playing all sorts of genre's from Fusion, to Blues, to Jazz, and even Harder Rock with out even touching a knob.
Matter of fact I had a Death Metal guy come in to an Open Mic I ran last week and he played Death Metal on my Quinn SDO 183 amp and it did it in spades, and the amp was barely open gain wise.
I think when HAD was building 183 he really wanted to have a wide variety of tones available becasue AFAIK the amp was comisioned for a Studio Owner .
Robben kills on that song... tone, note choice, you name it, it's all there.
Gil
talbany wrote:Here is a pretty cool clip of Robben controlling 102 IMO..You can hear the chirp clarity on the top end like Gil mentions in spades!!.. The tone gets snarley on the lower registers or when he really starts to muscle it or wants to accent a certain phrase or passage..Like the double stops (around 1:50)and the amp fuzzes up nicely..Really expressive!!..What can you say but tasteful!! IMO
ayan wrote:...the wrong direction...by which I mean away from smoothness.
Gil, do you think that when building (and/or using) a "Dumble ODS style" guitar amp "away from smoothness" is "the wrong direction" in general?
I ask because IMO Maria Callas was right when she stated:
"It is not enough to have a beautiful voice. What does that mean? When you interpret a role, you have to have a thousand colors to portray happiness, joy, sorrow, fear. How can you do this with only a beautiful voice? Even if you sing harshly sometimes, as I have frequently done, it is a necessity of expression."
Quote from "Callas : The Art and the Life" (1974) by John Ardoin and Gerald Fitzgerald
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