switchraft switching jack failures

[Milkmansound]

also - whats the difference between Cliff and Neutrik? They seem to be pretty much the same from the look of them

[M Fowler]

Does anybody have any definitive info-data-tests that show a difference between Cliff jacks and Cliff UK.?
Has anybody compared one thousand of each and seen any kind of "scientific" difference.?
You guys know what I mean. How many times can you insert and extract a plug before the jack fails.....stuff like that. Is there a difference to even be concerned about.?
Thank You

I was having a high rate of failure trying to insert a plug on new builds. That is why I started tracking down Cliff UK like many others here.

[John_P_WI]

I dug around in my box of jacks and found that the chrome trim ring "Cliff" jacks were counterfeit. Dave pretty much hit it on the head with his picture analysis. Besides the obvious differences when viewed from the bottom side, the heat stake piercings to keep the metal legs in place were crisp and through the metal on the real Cliffs, while slightly deformed and off center on the fakes.

Great analysis Dave.

Fortunately the plastic barreled, non-chrome trim ringed jacks that I have are real.....

[Structo]

I think the metalurgy quality in the contact metal is probably much higher
on the authentic Cliff jacks.
They have nickel silver alloy contacts that supposedly don't oxidize easily.

I will highlight parts of the last email I got from Bruce at Cliff Inc.

MCM, CE, New Old Sounds, were selling up until recently the counterfeits. Since we just won the case they realized that they were lied to and burned by CLIFF USA and Andy Brunt, who is now calling themselves CHK Electronics. We have had to lay low in the US market as this is what our attorney’s advised us to do until the case was resolved

Regarding on CLIFFUSA web site: The information will still pop up on a search but as of today it has been shut down according to the court order. They also cannot use any domain forwarders in any way. The CLIFF HONG KONG office or what they list as an Asia address that we also have litigation against. We just found out that is a travel agency in Hong Kong. Andy Brunt pays them a fee to answer the phone as CLIFF HONG KONG and arrange shipments from the infringing factory in China that turns out to be a factory that specializes in cheap toys that you see at the fairs. Scary, in know…

It has cost us millions, not only in loss and damages but in attorney’s fees. They have hidden their assets in China we believe so not sure I we will ever see a dime. It is sad that they can just move assets to another country, start a new company “CHK Electronics” and not have to pay a dime.

[C Moore]

Does anybody have any definitive info-data-tests that show a difference between Cliff jacks and Cliff UK.?
Has anybody compared one thousand of each and seen any kind of "scientific" difference.?
You guys know what I mean. How many times can you insert and extract a plug before the jack fails.....stuff like that. Is there a difference to even be concerned about.?
Thank You

I was having a high rate of failure trying to insert a plug on new builds. That is why I started tracking down Cliff UK like many others here.

Thanks Mr. F -
I was having my own troubles with Switchcraft Phone Jacks. A LOT of new jacks had a bad switch, so I switched to "Cliff" Jacks, which seem a better design to be honest with you.
But then I heard all this trouble with Real and Fake Cliff products......which I bought a lot of from CE and Parts Express.
Anyway.....looks like we all have a solution now. I have those Mil-Spec Switchcraft and also know which Cliff Jacks to look for.
Thanks

[M Fowler]

Funny thing is I haven't had one problem with switchcraft jacks yet, knock on wood

Mark

[renshen1957]

For the last month or so CE Dist. has been shipping Cliff UK jacks.
I complained about the misleading "Cliff jacks" they were selling, and it seems they listened to all of us !

Hi,

Ce Dist. to my memory (since 2009) has sold Cliff Jacks (genuine) and also plastic jacks (red fiber) as two distinct and separate listings on their website.

AES and Amplified Parts, I have checked same listing format. There is a new dealer on ebay newoldsound (from Gilbert, AZ ) that seems to sell the same stuff as Ce Dist, maybe a coincidence, maybe not.

For the record the Genuine Fender "Cliff Replacement Jack" as sold by Angela.com has China molded into the jack, for $4.99 each

http://thumbs3.ebaystatic.com/m/mCuWF6Q ... og/140.jpg

You can purchase Cliff UK for less than 1/2 that price.

Fender uses this Chinese jack in their "Made in USA" Amps. "Genuine Fender Part Number 0051658000"

Fender also uses Cliff Jack knock-offs (surprised no infringement issues)

http://www.tubesandmore.com/cemirror/inv/S-H508-TH.GIF
http://www.tubesandmore.com/cemirror/inv/S-H509-TH.GIF

I used Switchcraft, but will be converting (I already have parts) to Cliff.

I bet it has something to do with that Dxmn Rohs requirement.

Steve

[dmk]

Hi Steve. It was less than a few months ago that CED started with the Cliff UK jacks. Previous to this they had "Cliff Jacks" listed on the site, and indeed they were the counterfeit version. I know, as I purchased a large quantity last year and returned them after learning about the nonsense, and having a failure in a prototype amp.
They're currently blowing out the white bodied "Cliff Style" jacks on the site.

[M Fowler]

I purchaseds from CED as well and they were not Cliff UK.

Edit: Yes early last year 2011.

[Colossal]

I purchaseds from CED as well and they were not Cliff UK.

Same here; got counterfeits. That was very early last year though.

[renshen1957]

I purchaseds from CED as well and they were not Cliff UK.

Same here; got counterfeits. That was very early last year though.

"I purchaseds from CED as well and they were not Cliff UK.

Edit: Yes early last year 2011."


Hi all,

I've used switchcraft jacks up to very recently when I switched to cliff jacks, purchased from CE Dist. Their website has had the two divisions as I wrote and still does.

So evidently they sold counterfeit Cliff along with Chinese plastic jacks for sometime. The 2010 catalog has Cliff and plastic jacks (still downloadable from CE Dist home page) on page 54.

The current page on CE Dist does distinguish these as Cliff UK, with the white jacks listed as "Cliff Stye" same page. A separate page for "plastic jacks" still exists.


Caveat Emptor.

Steve

[Milkmansound]

I was able to return my stock of Switchcraft jacks back to CE - they were very awesome about it, actually! This is the first time the sales rep had heard of the issue.

Problem solved, for now.

[C Moore]

I was able to return my stock of Switchcraft jacks back to CE - they were very awesome about it, actually! This is the first time the sales rep had heard of the issue.

Problem solved, for now.

What problem(s) were you having, and what did CE say about it.?
Thanks

[husky]

Does anybody have any definitive info-data-tests that show a difference between Cliff jacks and Cliff UK.?
Has anybody compared one thousand of each and seen any kind of "scientific" difference.?
You guys know what I mean. How many times can you insert and extract a plug before the jack fails.....stuff like that. Is there a difference to even be concerned about.?
Thank You

Funny thing is that there was even a point during the lawsuit when Cliff USA was buying jacks from Cliff UK. Naturally they would be Cliff UK real jacks though. There is very much a cross pollination of people who worked and designed for both companies. It is difficult to switch to Cliff UK though unless they can get production up to better numbers. I'm having a hard time getting delivery and pricing from Cliff UK. Also just for the record, in the 2,000 jacks a month I use.... I have not seen ANY difference in the failure rate from either company. Both are very reliable, this includes warranty repairs going back 5 years. Not one ! jack failure for warranty once the amp or pedal was shipped and I have a lifetime warranty. All my jack failures (a handful at the most) out of 30,000 jacks have been out of the box issues or damage from improper soldering while teaching a trainee. Lets not forget the Chinese factory was setup by both companies Cliff Products and Cliff USA
At least that is what I understand but the whole thing is a very messy he said she said. I personally do not see any evidence to be worried about reliability from either. Much better track record than Switchcraft in my book. Hope that answers your question.

[Milkmansound]

What problem(s) were you having, and what did CE say about it.?
Thanks

the switches were opening up and lifting the grid leak resistor out of circuit letting in a TON of RF and noise to the first tube stage. Scared the crap out of a few of my customers when their amp suddenly went crazy after silently idling.

It also cost me some money to recall a few recent amps - not cool, but not too bad.

The problem took anywhere from 2-6 months to present itself and was intermittent. Not the easiest thing to track down but its definitely the input jack causing it. If you look at the mechanism closely, you can see where the corrosion occurs.