Dumble 183 and Quinn TKT

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Max
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Re: Dumble 183 and Quinn TKT

Post by Max »

boldaslove6789 wrote:It's on the #102setting (AKA the LNFB on the V1 preamp tube is in the "ON" position).
Greg, thanks for the clarification! Perhaps I didn't express myself well enough:

My interest isn't if a clone with the #0102 circuit can provide a player with such a kind of feedback that Tony promotes in his clips he posted in the "102 Feedback City" thread, but if the original #0183 or a clone of #0183, like the two of Mr Dumble, which are the topic of this thread, can do this. So my question is still unanswered:

Mr Dumble (or someone else here, who often plays/ed the original #0183 or a clone of #0183), what do you think concerning this question: Is the original #0183 and/or a clone of #0183 (6l6 and EL34) able to provide a player with such a kind of feedback as the one demonstrated by Tony in the "102 Feedback City" thread?

And if you should think so: Could you perhaps try to bring forth such a kind of feedback like the one demonstrated by Tony in the "102 Feedback City" thread, when playing the original #0183 or a clone of #0183 and demonstrate this in a clip posted here or/and in the "102 Feedback City" thread?

Thanks and have fun!

Max
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boldaslove6789
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Re: Dumble 183 and Quinn TKT

Post by boldaslove6789 »

I've built and tweaked a few straight #183 (& #102 clones), and owned a Quinn #183 Preamp, all of which generated that Feedback easily. Since there is no LNFB on V1 on #183 to load the signal down it actually can feedback more than #102.
Last edited by boldaslove6789 on Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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rogb
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Re: Dumble 183 and Quinn TKT

Post by rogb »

I thought Tony's had no LNFB on V1?

I had mine on a switch and ISTR switching it off helped feedback.
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martin manning
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Re: Dumble 183 and Quinn TKT

Post by martin manning »

boldaslove6789 wrote:I've built and tweaked a few straight #183 (& #102 clones), and owned a Quinn #183 Preamp, all of which generated that Feedback easily. Since there is no LNFB on V1 on #183 to load the signal down it actually can feedback more than #102.

IMO, This then tells us that the LNFB on V1 doesn't have any baring on whether or not the amp produces Feedback either.
These statements seem contradictory. Can you explain more?
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boldaslove6789
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Re: Dumble 183 and Quinn TKT

Post by boldaslove6789 »

Sorry, I'll rephrase,

I meant that the LNFB loop on V1 doesn't cause this feedback, but it does limit it (ie it feeds back more without it there).

I also have a switch on my SDO-Reverb for V1 LNFB and prefer it out of circuit.

I think this clips of the real Dumble ODS #183 says it all, from the sound of it, The real Dumble ODS #183 Feeds back very easily....

http://www.scottlernermusic.com/dumble/ ... AtLast.mp3
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martin manning
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Re: Dumble 183 and Quinn TKT

Post by martin manning »

Okay I see, thanks. I've been meaning to add a switch to my low-plate ODS. I guess I'll have to get on it to see what it can do.
talbany
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Re: Dumble 183 and Quinn TKT

Post by talbany »

boldaslove6789 wrote:I've built and tweaked a few straight #183 (& #102 clones), and owned a Quinn #183 Preamp, all of which generated that Feedback easily. Since there is no LNFB on V1 on #183 to load the signal down it actually can feedback more than #102.
FWIW.. I cant stand (where Greg was standing in his you tube clip) with My 102 variant without it going nuts!! (in OD) I have to be at least 5ft with my back to the amp.. Greg's amp responds (from where he was standing) pretty much like my Music Man amp..
BTW.. Nice Playing and KILLER!! tone Greg!!

I think this clips of the real Dumble ODS #183 says it all, from the sound of it, The real Dumble ODS #183 Feeds back very easily....
I did'nt hear any blooming/note flipping feedback in this clip!!... I have heard some nice feedback come from 0183


Tony
" The psychics on my bench is the same as Dumble'"
Mr Dumble
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Re: Dumble 183 and Quinn TKT

Post by Mr Dumble »

Max wrote:Mr Dumble, in this "102 Feedback City" thread https://tubeamparchive.com/viewtopic.ph ... sc&start=0 Tony posted some clips of the kind of feedback that he achieves with his newest amp. And Tony asked in this thread, if other or even all Dumble ODS amps are able to provide a player with such a kind of feedback when a player should like and want this kind of feedback when performing.

What do you think concerning this question: Is the original #0183 and/or one or both of your two clones of #0183 (6l6 and EL34) able to provide a player with such a kind of feedback?

And if you should think so: Could you perhaps try to promote such a kind of feedback when playing one or both of your #0183 clones and demonstrate this in a clip posted here or in the "102 Feedback City" thread?

Thanks and all the best,

Max

Hey Max,
I hope all is well.

Listening to that clip, I really dont hear anything unusual. Most Dumbles I have played I think will do that to one extent or another, depending on where you set the gain controls. Same with most MV amps. My old Marshall 50 watter (1972) would do that at just above whisper volumes, and it was really annoying. Great amp for van halen type of things, but not much else. With my style now, I would not want that at all. That being the case, I just plugged in to the Quinn TKT and did a take. It seems to do it in spades if you want it to. The closer you get to the amp, the more you have to lower the gain to stop it. I am on the other side of the room. Gain settings are just about noon, and MV at just below 9 Oclock. This a pretty small room, so that is pretty loud. (Most likely well below stage volumes however.) I have my Trex roomate in the loop, and a PRS artist 3 with mild dragon 2 pups going straight into the amp. No Dumbleator. I hope that helps. Again, someone else would be better off to ask, as I just dont use that type of thing in my playing anymore. Here is the clip. Sorry for the noise!! My room humidifier is right next to the SM 57, and I did not turn it off before doing the clip. :oops: You should just go ahead and order a 183 from Shad. You would be blown away!! :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4dyFplr ... re=channel

VERY GOOD VERY GOOD!
talbany
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Re: Dumble 183 and Quinn TKT

Post by talbany »

Max/Tag
I really don't want to get in a pissing match but listen to both clips again...I really do not have as much gain as Tag does in his clip, as you can hear the heavier compression/saturation going on.. My drive control was set at 3 and master 2 1/2 ..My observation..BTW the sustain/feedback is not coming from the OD side of my amp.. It's the clean side V1.. My Music Man amp will do the same thing at Tag's settings
As Gil states My 102 is able to get feedback with not much gain!!.. This is the whole point!!

Thanks!!

Tony
" The psychics on my bench is the same as Dumble'"
Mr Dumble
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Re: Dumble 183 and Quinn TKT

Post by Mr Dumble »

talbany wrote:Max/Tag
I really don't want to get in a pissing match but listen to both clips again...I really do not have as much gain as Tag does in his clip, as you can hear the heavier compression/saturation going on.. My drive control was set at 3 and master 2 1/2 ..My observation..BTW the sustain/feedback is not coming from the OD side of my amp.. It's the clean side V1.. My Music Man amp will do the same thing at Tag's settings
As Gil states My 102 is able to get feedback with not much gain!!.. This is the whole point!!

Thanks!!

Tony
Hey Tony,
I had/or have no intentions of a pissing match either. I did not know this was going there at all. Listining to your clip and mine just for a comparison (not a critic), I find both to sound very similar gain wise, and in fact, yours sounds like it has a bit more gain going on IMO. No matter though, most 80s/90s Dumbles I have played do this in a pretty similar fasion. Some maybe a little more than others, but nothing that just adding or subtracting a small amount of gain or volume wouldnt equalize things. Even a preamp swap from say a tele to a mullard. For me and what I like, I would rather have less of that. It gets in the way of my phrasing, but of course thats totally style dependent. (And part of why I play totally clean and fenders now for the most part!) Someone who plays heavier rock would probably want more of it, and probaby even more than Dumbles do anyway. :)

YMMV, IMO, and all of that.
Max
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Re: Dumble 183 and Quinn TKT

Post by Max »

Mr Dumble wrote:I hope that helps.
Yes, this was indeed informative. Thanks for posting this clip and your personal comments in regard to this "feedback" topic. IMO you're right: How much of this a player likes and wants will IMO indeed depend a lot on the personal style and taste of a player. Chet Atkins e.g. aperantly could live without a lot of feedback and AFAIK even without a Dumble. :D

Take care!

Max
qtone
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Re: Dumble 183 and Quinn TKT

Post by qtone »

This Chet Atkins guy he pretty good or something ?
:lol:
talbany
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Re: Dumble 183 and Quinn TKT

Post by talbany »

Max wrote:
Mr Dumble wrote:I hope that helps.
Yes, this was indeed informative. Thanks for posting this clip and your personal comments in regard to this "feedback" topic. IMO you're right: How much of this a player likes and wants will IMO indeed depend a lot on the personal style and taste of a player. Chet Atkins e.g. aperantly could live without a lot of feedback and AFAIK even without a Dumble. :D

Take care!

Max
I agree.. :D IMO To have the ability to call on notes for a sustained period of time is simply another bullet in ones belt..Sax players do it all the time and those who master the art of circular breathing incorporate this into their style which IMO makes them that much more unique or different or could possibly separate them from other players style or texture/Timbre..(Gerald Albright as one example).. To be able to have such a kind of feedback effect at ones disposal at the turn of a volume knob and when used sparingly to create a kind of tension or suspension in a certain passage or phrase is IMHO a rather valuable bullet to have in ones belt!!..This is how I look at such a unique ability in any guitar amplifier.. Others might not and that is fine too..
:wink:

Tony
" The psychics on my bench is the same as Dumble'"
Max
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Re: Dumble 183 and Quinn TKT

Post by Max »

talbany wrote:To be able to have such a kind of feedback effect at ones disposal at the turn of a volume knob and when used sparingly to create a kind of tension or suspension in a certain passage or phrase is IMHO a rather valuable bullet to have in ones belt!!
Tony, of course does a versatile amp have a lot of advantages, especially for a studio player, even for one, who's familiar with a Dumble amp: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjSX5UvVGzI

But IMO versatility often has to be bought with some compromises. So many players like specialized instruments, which can't do everything but do just what an individual musician likes best. And that's IMO exactly what Alexander Dumble does, building customized instruments with customized qualities, amps that perhaps aren't as versatile as a Boogie Mark V e.g., but just versatile enough to provide an individual player with an individual palette of all those tonal colors that she or he needs. And AFAIK at least most of his customers in the end liked the - IMO very different! - amps that he built for them.

So if it really should be the case, that RF's original #102 can provide RF with some special kind of feedback response that other Dumble amps, like #183 e.g., perhaps aren't able to deliver in exactly the same amount and manner (if this should be the case), this would IMO most probably just have the reason that other players, like the one who ordered #183 e.g., did or still do have other priorities. IMO it's just the same as in regard to guitars: For some musician his custom-made Zemaitis may perhaps be "the best" guitar, someone else may perhaps prefer his custom-made D'Aquisto Solo.

That's one of the reason, why I allways have some problems to understand discussions about what's "the best" amp or guitar or car or whatever. IMO "the best" whatever is just something that has exactly all the properties some individual needs and asks for. And AFAIK individuals need rather different individual things, just because they are individuals. So some player may perhaps indeed feel the need to allways have as many "calibers" at hand as possible, but someone else perhaps feels that he can do all what he wants just with a .44.

So IMO it's far more important in the context of The Amp Garage to find out, like it's done right now in the "102 Feedback City" thread e.g., why different Dumble amps are able to deliver their individual kind of tone and feel etc., which the individual musician, who ordered this individual amp, aperantly asked for: What precisely makes ODS #102 sound like #102 and #183 like #183 and #075 like # 075 and #008 like #008 etc.? These are IMO the interesting questions. But a discussion about which Dumble amp delivers the "better" kind of feedback e.g. IMO doesn't make much sense, at least without at first making crystal clear, in precisely what kind of musical context and by what kind of player with what kind of touch etc. it shall be used.

A great time to all here!

Max
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Re: Dumble 183 and Quinn TKT

Post by CHIP »

Well spoken, Max.
A guitarists search for amplifying his specialized voice will be made a lot easier if and when some of these desirable traits of HADs' amps are unlocked.
The difficulty of obtaining an understanding and reproducing these traits is a reminder of how special a builder like HAD really is.
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