general workmanship quest.- wire/cable hookup to tube socket

[kwijabo]

any one with experience on this?

i'm just starting to build my second build.

i've seen a lot of people saying with 18 gauge stranded for the heater wires, and i did that on build one but to be honest, i had the toughest time fitting two 18 gauge wires (especially stranded - every time i try to put it in i leave a strand or two behind!) into the same tube pin for the 9pins. is there a trick??

also, in general, when you guys connect the other, smaller gauge wires to the sockets do you leave a little extra stripped wire and wrap it around the socket pin or do you strip of just enough and just set it in the pin?

surely there's got to be a better way than what i'm doing because all ya'lls gut shots look a lot cleaner.

[guitarmike2107]

You don't need 18AWG for pre amp heaters, you can use 22AWG quite happily for the pre amp.

OR you can go even smaller and run a separate pair to each tube socket, so you don’t have to get two wires into the socket.

[Gibsonman63]

I use 18AWG on the octal sockets and then go to 20AWG for preamps. Solder is not the same as welding, so you need enough wire through the socket lug to be secure before you solder. I twist the stranded wire and tin it with a little solder, not too much or you will make the wire thicker and hard to work with. Then you can loop it through and fold it over around the lug.

[Phil_S]

I like 20AWG solid for noval preamp heaters. Those pins are small for 18AWG stranded and threading two of them into the hole is a big challenge. For octal sockets, usually with two big holes on each pin, you can use just about anything - I bet 16AWG lamp cord would fit.

As for the amount to strip and thread into the hole? The answer is, just the right amount -- the amount you need to make a good mechanical contact. You can snip the excess, but you are supposed to do that before you solder. If you do it after soldering, you should retouch, just to be sure you didn't disturb the solder joint.

[selloutrr]

tin the wire before you try to thread it into the hole.

[M Fowler]

Yup pretin the stranded wire or use solid 20 ga.

I wish Belton would make a novel socket the size of the octal so I wouldn't have to cuss everytime I wire up a four EL84 power section. I would just go to a larger chassis to accept the larger sockets, problem solved.

Mark

[Structo]

I gave up after trying to get 18 gauge to work.

I ended up using all 20 ga after reading it can handle 11 amps.

In a 4x 6L6 + 3x 12ax7 amp, you are only drawing roughly 5 amps.

Of course when the tubes are cold they draw more at startup but not that much.

I suppose having 18 ga on the power tubes would be best but I haven't ever noticed that the heater wires got hot.

[overtone]

...also, in general, when you guys connect the other, smaller gauge wires to the sockets do you leave a little extra stripped wire and wrap it around the socket pin or do you strip of just enough and just set it in the pin? ...

This is what my Grandfather taught me:
- always tin first
- wrap the tinned wire around the tinned lug or socket as tightly as possible, it should stay in place by itself.
- touch with the soldering iron, with the solder on the opposite side of where the iron is. Let it flow.
And he said "Don't move, twitch, breath or think any naughty things until the joint has set."

The "just poke it through" is kind of OK for temporary test components. But if you are taking the amp out to gig you want reliable connections, right?
The "poke and glue" method was used on German '60s Hohner amps and nearly every connection I've seen on those had gone bad in time.
I learnt a great deal, including wire size, from studying the workmanship of the British old school Burman amps. They wrapped the connections so much that it seemed that they tied the components in with sailors knots!

[Tone Lover]

...also, in general, when you guys connect the other, smaller gauge wires to the sockets do you leave a little extra stripped wire and wrap it around the socket pin or do you strip of just enough and just set it in the pin? ...

This is what my Grandfather taught me:
- always tin first
- wrap the tinned wire around the tinned lug or socket as tightly as possible, it should stay in place by itself.
- touch with the soldering iron, with the solder on the opposite side of where the iron is. Let it flow.
And he said "Don't move, twitch, breath or think any naughty things until the joint has set."

The "just poke it through" is kind of OK for temporary test components. But if you are taking the amp out to gig you want reliable connections, right?
The "poke and glue" method was used on German '60s Hohner amps and nearly every connection I've seen on those had gone bad in time.
I learnt a great deal, including wire size, from studying the workmanship of the British old school Burman amps. They wrapped the connections so much that it seemed that they tied the components in with sailors knots!

Good point Overtone thanks i never really thought about it before.
I love the wisdom of our elders
Bill

[diagrammatiks]

it's easier to fit solid core.

[amplifiednation]

On my last build I had noval sockets with extra tall lugs they were amazingly easy to put double 18awg in. I got them in a trade so I have no clue on the brand. The amp isn't mounted in a cab right now, I will post pics of them tomorrow. We should all be using these sockets! They were like the double octal lugs. Maybe we can figure out who makes them. I tried to spot them on at AES but they all look the same

[diagrammatiks]

beltons have extra wide loops

[img:500:291]http://www.tubesandmore.com/cemirror/inv/P-ST9-601.GIF[/img]

[amplifiednation]

beltons have extra wide loops

[img:500:291]http://www.tubesandmore.com/cemirror/inv/P-ST9-601.GIF[/img]

BA boom! Thanks those are the ones!

[rp]

I wish Belton would make a novel socket the size of the octal so I wouldn't have to cuss everytime I wire up a four EL84 power section. I would just go to a larger chassis to accept the larger sockets, problem solved. Mark

But it's supposed to be a miniature tube, a great leap forward: Sputnik, radio in the car, amp in a guitar case You should be happy the tube age ended in 1965, had the transistor never been invented I bet we'd have tubes the size of LEDs now, good luck daisy chaining the heaters on those.

Also:

Old Marshalls had 20awg throughout, they blew up often enough but not from the heater wires.

I was taught solder is not glue and you must make a secure connection that can stand on it's own first. But for us tinkerers that just makes the amp a real SOB to trouble-shoot or mod. I like to build bullet proof so I'm always conflicted here. I tend to stick with the rules and damn myself a lot.

Someone said 22awg for the pre's is ok. Hmmm wonder if you can do home runs using a Cat5 that branches out to 4 preamp tubes?

oooh! Belton niners it will be from now on. I've come across these but never knew where I got them. Do they make these with shield bases?

[diagrammatiks]

yup. tubes and more has them.

also, if your layout is clean in the power section and you can keep the fuse, mains wiring etc away from your sockets it's not really that necessary to twist the heater wires in the power amp stage.