An amp for junior

[Big Jim]

My son is a gear nut. Go figure. He has a lot of amps and guitars. However, every time he plays my 5E3, he says, "That is my tone right there, only bigger, and with reverb". I have only built this one Fender circuit, and there are a lot of Tweed circuits that I haven't played. This leads to my subject. Is there a larger Tweed circuit that mimics the Deluxe character? Low Powered Twin maybe, Bassman, etc? Also does one circuit lend itself to adding reverb better than the others? I realize this means space in the chassis, extra tube socket etc. I guess we are wanting to couple spring reverb to that beautiful Tweed gaininess that has made the 5E3 famous, only bigger. Suggestions?
Jim

[billyz]

Much of the magic in a 5e3 circuit is the Cathodyne Phase inverter and the Cathode biased power tubes. I have heard a friends suped up deluxe with 6l6's , bigger PT and proper OT for the 6l6's . It is a monster. Twins , bassmans etc, do not sound like a deluxe, In my experience, they have Long tailed pair PI's and fixed bias.

For the best reverb you could go with an out board fender style reverb , built in , ala vibroking.

[M Fowler]

There are several options one could go with like the 5E3x2 (double Deluxe) like Weber has in their kit.

Or 6L6 as Bill stated such as the Ceriatone 5E3x2.

Mark

[Big Jim]

Thanks Billy,
This is the kind of input I was looking for. I suggested to my son that a 6L6 equipped 5E3 might be the answer. Maybe 6L6's and a 2x12 cabinet. I would expect a tad more headroom with the bigger iron as well. I will look into the Vibro King outboard reverb arrangement as well. Appreciated.
Jim

[Big Jim]

Thanks Mark as well,
I was replying to Billy while you were posting up your reply. I think you guys are right. A more potent Deluxe circuit would be perfect in my mind.
I am amazed at how hard these little amps rock. Almost Marshall territory.
Thanks for your interest and help.
Jim

[billyz]

I thought about a 4 power tube complement , but did not know if the cathodyne inverter would provide the drive needed. Apparently others think it can. Thanks Mark. My friends "Frankenstein deluxe" as we call it, does have about 500VDC on the plates of the 6l6's . I can tell you that just running 6l6's in a stock deluxe only gets you a little headroom. You need the Transformers as well. Into 2x12's should be the ticket. or 4x10's. wish I had the time to build such a beast with the fender 6G15 front end. Might even throw some bias wiggle trem in too.

[M Fowler]

Well Lord knows I have enough amps but building a bigger 5E3 has been on my mind for quite some time.

Mark

[M Fowler]

Hoffman forum has some great .sch layouts and schematics here is one with 5E3 with reverb.

Also another one called the super-Deluxe with 6L6

Mark

[Zippy]

My son is a gear nut. Go figure. He has a lot of amps and guitars. However, every time he plays my 5E3, he says, "That is my tone right there, only bigger, and with reverb". I have only built this one Fender circuit, and there are a lot of Tweed circuits that I haven't played. This leads to my subject. Is there a larger Tweed circuit that mimics the Deluxe character? Low Powered Twin maybe, Bassman, etc? Suggestions?
Jim

Bruce Collins at Mission Amps has a 6L6 option with his kits - larger trannies, etc.

http://missionamps.com/5E3kit.shtml

[Big Jim]

My son is a gear nut. Go figure. He has a lot of amps and guitars. However, every time he plays my 5E3, he says, "That is my tone right there, only bigger, and with reverb". I have only built this one Fender circuit, and there are a lot of Tweed circuits that I haven't played. This leads to my subject. Is there a larger Tweed circuit that mimics the Deluxe character? Low Powered Twin maybe, Bassman, etc? Suggestions?
Jim

Bruce Collins at Mission Amps has a 6L6 option with his kits - larger trannies, etc.

http://missionamps.com/5E3kit.shtml

I actually thought about a mission kit for this build. I scratch built my 5E3 when I built it. I ended up spending as much or more than Bruce charges for his kits. I do however prefer turrets to eyelets. (personal preference). I believe he uses eyelets on his boards.

[Zippy]

I actually thought about a mission kit for this build. I scratch built my 5E3 when I built it. I ended up spending as much or more than Bruce charges for his kits. I do however prefer turrets to eyelets. (personal preference). I believe he uses eyelets on his boards.

Bruce uses good stuff - I built a Super (5F4) kit from him.

Yes, he uses eyelets - no reason that you couldn't buy his kit and have someone from here make you a turret board that matches his.

[Big Jim]

+1 Zippy,
Bruce is known for delivering a quality product. I actually have the staking tools to build turret boards, so it's not really a big issue. Honestly eyelets are probably easier to solder in multiple leads, I have just always liked the way the turrets elevate the components and keep the leads straight. Neater looking to me.
Jim

[JoeCOOl]

I Believe the Kendrick Black Gold is basically 40-50w tweed deluxe with proper transformes (most likely from his bassman clone line a) and reverb.

I would like to know how he does the verb. In a quick conversation with him, he mentioned that the verb output fed directly into the power stage. Not sure if he meant phase inverter or right to the output tubes.

I was asking Gerald about this because a number of years ago I played his 2112 Tweed deluxe clone. It has 6L6 and a SS plug in rectifier instead of tube and also had an add on reverb module installed in the back.

This was one of the best amps I have played, but guitar center did not want to deal. It was used and they wanted $1250 for it.

This tweed deluxe setup was the basis for his 50w black gold amp.

I have been looking for a schematic (to understand the verb), but have yet to find one.

[angelodp]

I built the Mission 5E3, it rocks, but this Supre Champ from rj in a 4x12, yikes!! Just sayin.

Also, have you seen Jean's site

http://www.jeangodbout.com/5E3x2/5e3x2.html

A

[tubeswell]

I agree that one of the big parts of the mojo of a 5E3 (besides its overall simplicity) is the cathodyne inverter. But then again the cathode biased 6V6s are also a big part sof it. So is the tweed front end. (Heck! that's just about the whole amp But if you look at the topology of a 5E3 you have typical (from ~'55 onwards) tweed front end going into the tone stack/vol, and 'recovered' by driver stage & cathodyne inverter and cathode biased 6V6 output stage into a 8kPP 15W OT.

The next Fender amp to that moving on into the brown era, is the 6G2 Princeton, which is like a one-channel 5E3 with a slightly different tone stack/vol control, and with a fixed bias output stage, and bias-vary trem, but much the same in other respects.

After that comes the AA964 BF Princeton - same as the 6G2 but with a TB tonestack and a GZ34 rectifier. After that, the nearest PP 6V6 amp with an 8k OT and reverb is the BFPR - which is getting to be quite a different beast altogether.

Its not easy putting reverb into a tweed circuit. I have done it with a tweed bassman after much kerfuffle and several iterations that took about 18 months to work through - ended up being more like an Allen Old Flame before it sounded any good.

You could build a 6G15 and use that in front of the tweed deluxe.