sozo premiums in

[iknowjohnny]

Pass. Not worth it.

[selloutrr]

bloody hell

I don't check a post for a day and it goes bunk.
Stop fighting we don't need another hyjacked thread.

OK we get it you spend $50 bucks and have buyers remorse.
Now, You have 2 cut and dry options.
1.) Remove them
2.) leave them in

If you aren't happy call sozo or contact them via email. They are nice guys.

The truth is your caps are new, they take time to form and break in. It talks all about it on the website, even shows pics of scope traces from before and after break in. If you aren't patient enough to break in the caps pull them out and put in something you ARE HAPPY with. 99.9% of audio is physcosematic, so quiet fighting us and just do what you want to feel better.

The difference between break in of the mass produced and the handmade caps is huge. the machine is made to an exacting process that presets and mimics a predetermined result, it's tighter and more exact. the handmade are ecactly that made by hand by real people.. People are not perfect. It says alot that a person is able to make a cap that sounds as good if not better then the cap that was made by machine. GIVE THEM TIME TO FORM!

IMHO at any price the SOZO are the closest to the Original's that they mimic currently offered on the market. When I have to replace a vintage cap in a fender, hiwatt, marshall, traynor, etc. I use SOZO premium hand made caps, the same ones you purchased. At first they sound new, as they are supposed to. after they are played and broken in they sound like the cap I replaced before it went bad.

[iknowjohnny]

Well, like i keep saying, thats not the point, and apparently you and possible a number of people here didn't read the whole thread because i have BOTH the standard and vintage sozos.

1)-standards are still new and not broken in
2)-vintage are new and not broken in
3)-standards sound better then the vintage to me when new

So the only remaining question would be do the vintages improve a lot more than the standards when they are both broken in. If not, then I like the standards better. It's that simple.

Somehow people seem to think i don't like them even after i've said i think they are the single biggest improvement i've found so far and are very very close to each other. But since they are both new and i like the standards better than unless somehow the vintage improve to a greater degree when broken in, then the standard sozos are it.

[selloutrr]

I read your posts, I feel like you aren't reading ours.

We get it you hate the caps in comparision to the machined caps. All we are offering is that before you judge the handmade caps. try them as they are meant to be broken in.

yes the premium break in smoother then the standards. The standards are pretty much the best they are going to get the day you put them in. The premiums smooth out and develope an image.

It takes about 100 hrs. to break in the premium caps

The standards start out better because they are made to a closer tolerance by machine.

[Cliff Schecht]

I think we all hear what you are saying. If you like the standards more then use the standards and save the blues for something else. The only point we keep trying to make is that you are passing negative judgment on a product that you are essentially misusing (i.e. not following the destructions, err directions). I agree with the others, let's not get offensive because YOU decided to listen to us (a community of well respected builders) and didn't agree with our opinions (and again, you aren't giving the product a proper assessment). It isn't that hard to throw in a crap set of tubes, put the amp on a dummy load, hook up a sinusoidal function generator and let the caps cook for a few days. If you were really scientific about things you could even take scope shots at random intervals and perhaps even record soundclips to really get an idea of whether the caps smooth out or not.

[iknowjohnny]

No see, you are not reading mine at all.....

We get it you hate the caps in comparision to the machined caps

Where did i say that? I said i like them both but the standards are better. The vintage however are great, just not as good. I've said that 10 times in various ways and never said i hated the vintage. Show me the post where i did.

All we are offering is that before you judge the handmade caps. try them as they are meant to be broken in

I am not judging them on thier own, i am comparing them to the standards with both types not broken in. Said that over and over too.

yes the premium break in smoother then the standards. The standards are pretty much the best they are going to get the day you put them in. The premiums smooth out and develope an image.

There ya go !!! Again something i have eluded to over and over and in the PM to whats his name too, but not once has anyone replied to me and told me that till now ! This is why i said i AM listening, you guys aren't ! The only thing i have been accused of is not listening to you tell me that i can't jusge them till they break in. But i not only listened but QUESTIONED whether that would make the difference over the standards by asking "WILL THE VINTAGE IMPROVE MORE THEN THE STANDARDS when both are broken in.

I don't know how much clearer i can make that, but i'm getting beaten over the head for saying thing i didn't or not listening when i did.

[mcrracer]

No see, you are not reading mine at all.....

yes the premium break in smoother then the standards. The standards are pretty much the best they are going to get the day you put them in. The premiums smooth out and develope an image.

There ya go !!! Again something i have eluded to over and over and in the PM to whats his name too, but not once has anyone replied to me and told me that till now ! This is why i said i AM listening, you guys aren't ! The only thing i have been accused of is not listening to you tell me that i can't jusge them till they break in. But i not only listened but QUESTIONED whether that would make the difference over the standards by asking "WILL THE VINTAGE IMPROVE MORE THEN THE STANDARDS when both are broken in.

I don't know how much clearer i can make that, but i'm getting beaten over the head for saying thing i didn't or not listening when i did.

"Whats his name" is Mr. Reed to you. You may not like me, you may not like what I say, You may even disagree with me...But you will respect me and every other person on this forum. We are all just trying to help you. No one is attacking you. You are the one with the chip on your shoulder.

[iknowjohnny]

Well, no, i don't respect you mr reed. I respect the others because they are simply telling me what they think i am missing, and regardless of whether i am or not they have yet to speak to me like you did. I'll leave now and regardless of anyone else's issues with me i still thank you all for the help you've given me because it's been very helpful. I KNOW that guys like me who know little about electronics theory and ask a lot of questions irritate a lot of people. But i appreciate the fact that no one here, at least till Mr reed has ever said anything to me to indicate that. They just stay quiet when someone irritates them. Like everyone i find people that do that to me on other forums too. I do the same as people here do...i remain quiet. Mr reed doesn't, which is likely why he PM'd. Therefore no, i do not respect you. I detest people like you. You talk to me in a angry manner in PM's but post in the thread with kid gloves so as not to show that anger to others.

To the rest thanks again for the help you gave , sorry it turned to this. But i assure you it wasn't me whether or not you choose to believe that.

[mcrracer]

Johnny , you have issues, telling the truth is one of them. the following are the PMs I sent him . Let the forum be the judge if I said anything inappropriate.

mcrracer
To: iknowjohnny
Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:12 pm
Subject: Sozo caps
If you don't want to follow Sozos suggestions on preparing the caps for use. Return them. If they wont take them back PM me and I will consider buying them from you. I like using Sozos , just can't afford to use them in everything I build. Some customers are looking for budget amps...Budget amps don't get Sozos!!
Mr. Reed

From: mcrracer
To: iknowjohnny
Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:59 pm
Subject: Re: Sozo caps
The 100 hour burn in. And yes it does take more than 6 hours.

From: mcrracer
To: iknowjohnny
Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:02 pm
Subject: Re: Sozo caps
You don't get it and probably never will. If you do not follow the instructions on how to properly use a part , you are in no position to comment one way or the other on that parts' performance. I offered to help you out if you feel you have wasted your money. Never mind please excuse my PM. I am sorry to have bothered you. Have a great day.

That was it. I am done. Maybe Johnny can find another hobby where he is King!

[dartanion]

Love....soft as an easy-chair <3 <3

[C Moore]

[overtone]

sometimes words fail us, maybe a picture helps and we all love plot-curves...
So here is my highly scientific plot of sozoness against time (it might as well be wine) for three types of sozo: the standard, the handmade and, as a kind of placebo, some that I made earlier: my very own home-made sozo/toilet-paper-tube/milk-bottle-top caps.

The redline is traced at six hours which I hope may throw some light onto the OP question, at least as I understand it, why the handmades are not outperforming the standards after 6 hours.

I have known some female human beings that seemed a bit like these plot curves, the standard ones were great, as were the premiums, but the latter really took their time. Still don't know which is best. Of course one could try direct coupled.

Best.

[guitarmike2107]

Ha ha brilliant graph, Cap burn in is such a highly debated thing you have one camp that swear they hear the difference and the other camp that say just use what you can get if it’s a poly cap its a poly cap etc.

As another example, rather than baking, I have used G12H anniversary speakers for ages, once worn in they do sound pretty good, but I bought some of the much more expensive G12H heritage speakers expecting them to sound at least three times better (for three times the cost). Well they didn’t actually they sounded really crap with that amp because I had been tweaking the amp with the anniversary speakers.
You can work out the moral of that story yourself

On another note in that same amp I needed a 0.0047uf cap and managed to get a hold of a NOS mustard cap It achieved the bass roll off I was after, but several months later I ended up ripping it out for a different cap, and changing that single cap did make a big difference (normally I would say changing a single cap doesn’t make a big difference)

I personally would not have spent the extra $50 for the caps for one of my own amps, but If I was trying to build and sell an amp then I would aim to use the best know brand, and the “best” caps that they have so I would probably have used them or orange drops.
BTW I am using the word “best” as in customer perception not necessarily performance. Marketing plays a huge factor

I don’t think sozo say on their website that the handmade ones sound better, they are more expensive because they are handmade.
We draw the conclusion that they sound better because they are more expensive.

[Colossal]

Johnny,

The Vintage Hand Wound (yellow) Sozos roll off more highs and have a focused mid response. Standard Sozo yellows pass more highs, hence the detail you are hearing when comparing the Vintage Hand Wound to the Standards. Both are doing exactly what they are designed to. The Vintage Hand Wounds may be better suited for a JTM45 or a classic Superlead as they were designed to closely emulate a more mid-responsive mustard cap. The Standards pass more highs and are better suited to a lead or high gain amp where more high end detail may be desireable. You noted in one of your earlier posts that you were able to hear more highs from the Standards from the start and that you preferred it over the Vintage Hand Wound. Both caps are doing exactly what they are supposed to and will continue to form and do *that* with a little more clarity and musicality as they break in.

I think you may have been operating under the pretense that if Standards were good, Vintage Hand Wound's had to be better for the cost premium. They are just <i>different</i>.

[Structo]

Somebody need a hug?