General question about selling homebuilt amps

[rutledj]

Is it legal to sell an amp home built that has not been through the typical UL testing procedures? I'm thinking of selling my homemade d clone on ebay but was wondering of the possible liabilities I might open myself to.

Thanks,
Rut

[Zippy]

"legal"? Sure.

Are you still liable? Depends. Don't sell it to a guitar-hack lawyer.

Does it say "Dumble" on it? That's an issue.

[rutledj]

No. It has my own clever name on it Cooltone overdrive

[Billion81]

No worries. Just make sure you are clear that it is a home built non commercial unit. I have purchased amps from non-commercial builders and those have turned out to be some of the best amps I've got in my quiver.

Set expectations that it is a home built unit. Be sure to set limits about what you will sign up to so you are not back and forth with some nudnik who will kill you in tunes ups, re voicings etc...

more than a few folks on TAG sell their builds as they move on to other circuits-

[longislandrod]

I'm an Ex- UL Engineer.

The simple answer is UL protects you if there is an incident in the field.

The UL Standard requires measures that protect against fire and shock hazard, assuming you build as per the UL standard.

Secondly it offers a legal defense should there be litigation.

FWIW - I've seen quite a few amps that would not pass UL.

[rutledj]

I'm an Ex- UL Engineer.

The simple answer is UL protects you if there is an incident in the field.

The UL Standard requires measures that protect against fire and shock hazard, assuming you build as per the UL standard.

Secondly it offers a legal defense should there be litigation.

FWIW - I've seen quite a few amps that would not pass UL.

Would you be interested in sharing some of the things to look for? What would a UL certification check for?

Thanks,
Rut

[TheGimp]

I had our local Safety guy check the UL files he has access to and he can not find a single tube amplifier listed!

I've also started checking Fender and other manuals and find no UL listings.

Can anyone produce documentation of a tube amp with UL Certification?

[longislandrod]

I'm an Ex- UL Engineer.

The simple answer is UL protects you if there is an incident in the field.

The UL Standard requires measures that protect against fire and shock hazard, assuming you build as per the UL standard.

Secondly it offers a legal defense should there be litigation.

FWIW - I've seen quite a few amps that would not pass UL.

Would you be interested in sharing some of the things to look for? What would a UL certification check for?

Thanks,
Rut

sure PM me or better yet email me at grodcat@verizon.net

[longislandrod]

I had our local Safety guy check the UL files he has access to and he can not find a single tube amplifier listed!

I've also started checking Fender and other manuals and find no UL listings.

Can anyone produce documentation of a tube amp with UL Certification?

Fender amps are UL listed or certified by another certification body but they follow the same Standard. All major mfgs that sell in retail store or globally will have a safety cert.

[talbany]

Hey it's a good thing this power strip is UL certified boy.. Everyone in the pool..

Tony

[ampdan]

I had our local Safety guy check the UL files he has access to and he can not find a single tube amplifier listed!

I've also started checking Fender and other manuals and find no UL listings.

Can anyone produce documentation of a tube amp with UL Certification?

My 1965 Vibrolux Reverb
[IMG:640:480]http://i55.tinypic.com/2z7o67a.jpg[/img]

[jhaas]

I think it depends on the definition of "Major Manufacturer". I've heard many of the major *boutique* amp makers do not have the UL seal. A guy on another forum posted about looking into it and coming to the conclusion it would cost about $300 per unit - meaning each one had to be inspected individually. I think he was in Canada.

[vibratoking]

Hey it's a good thing this power strip is UL certified boy.. Everyone in the pool..

Tony, that is funny as hell! Thanks

[ToneMerc]

As one that at one time carried 5 million dollars worth of personal liability insurance, there's is liability and don't let anyone tell you any different.

What happens is most people roll the dice and side with the instance of one being sued as rare and slim.

The question you have to ask yourself is this..............

Do you have the resources to afford to defend yourself out of pocket to prove that you were not liable?

I have some great case studies, but they are much to long to cover on this forum.

TM

[TheGimp]

It appears that the appropriate UL document is UL 60065, second in this list:

http://ulstandardsinfonet.ul.com/catalo ... dards.html

It is based on the IEC specification IEC60065 which is the Harmonizing document for international agreement.

http://www.sirim.my/iscs/tcA/iec60065%7 ... 7Den_d.pdf

but what the differences are could only be ascertained by purchasing the UL document, and it is not cheap.

There are other copies out on the net without the overprint, but I've only found older versions.