4 ohm only on Van Weelden Twinkeland?

[Max]

Assuming there is noticeable difference in the 4 ohm, single tap- what's the ideal speaker config? Not actual speaker recommendation but just from wiring scheme to match the load.

Hi Billion81,

this topic has been discussed here as an example: https://tubeamparchive.com/viewtopic.ph ... 470#128470

Cheers,

Max

[ampdork]

but what about a single tap 16ohm OT vs. a multi tap 4/8/16 and using the 16ohm tap? never been able to try that yet, or 3 identical single tap trannies with the same speakers but 4ohm, 8ohm, and 16ohm versions of each speaker and OT matched up

I have only tried with the single 4 against a multitapped... No experience with 8 or 16 ohm.

So his own personal taste concerning "tone" and/or the personal taste of his customers has been/is probably different from your personal taste concerning "tone".

Max no offense but just because he uses a multitapped trafo says nothing about his personal taste....unless you know something from a conversation with him regarding the matter?

Case in point is that while I have a personal preference for single's....guess what? Most of my sdo's are made with multiple taps.
One has to bear in mind that clients also have preferences....like to use cabs and speakers they already have or to be able to accommodate many different types.

So not entirely sure I agree with your notion that a personal preference of dumbles can be known based upon what he did with amps he sold.

Again maybe you have had a conversation with him regarding it or otherwise know something?

Not trying to be disparaging but Max what do YOU think?
Have you tried any experiments?

[Structo]

Also, HAD may have had a good line on the Twin 4 ohm transformers.
He knew they sounded good so he used them.

Might be as simple as logistics as to why he only used 4 ohm.

Maybe at the time there were no multi tap 100 watt output transformers.

[talbany]

I agree with Shad on this one.. For the most part some of the best sounding OPT's I've used have been singles as well (especially old Fender stuff).. Don't know why don't care to know why just do..

Tony

[Max]

Max no offense but just because he uses a multitapped trafo says nothing about his personal taste....unless you know something from a conversation with him regarding the matter?

Hi amdork,

you obviously did skip that I wrote:

So his own personal taste concerning "tone" and/or the personal taste of his customers has been/is probably different from your personal taste concerning "tone".

Not trying to be disparaging but Max what do YOU think?

All OTs I know did not make any sound at all, even if I did hold them very close to my ears.

But seriously:

IMO a Dumble amp is a system and the tone of a Dumble amp is the result of the team work of all its parts as planned and designed by Alexander Dumble. And because of this I think like this about all the parts in the Dumble amps I like:

"Never change a winning team!"

So why should I experiment with the output transformers of amps that I like a lot?

Cheers,

Max

[ampdork]

So why should I experiment with the output transformers of amps that I like a lot?

Who ever suggested you to do this experiment with an actual Dumble or amp you like? That's just silly is it not?

What I suggest is very easy for the vast majority of people here to try themselves....thus giving them actual empirical observations by which to form their OWN opinions.

So my suggestion is very valid in context of this forum and i would suggest to any amp builder to try it.

[Max]

What I suggest is very easy for the vast majority of people here to try themselves....thus giving them actual empirical observations by which to form their OWN opinions.

...to do this experiment with an actual Dumble or amp you like? That's just silly is it not?

Hi ampdork,

I don’t think that this would be "silly" in a general sense. Experiments can be a very valuable way to get information, at least if their design is suitable for delivering the kind of information someone is looking for.

And, as you know, even some owners of original Dumble amplifiers decided that an increase in the level of information – about circuit details as an example – is worth to ruin the originality of their amps, and by this perhaps at least a part of their collector’s value, too, by degooping them.

But I personally think that how high someone values an increase in information and how much labour and money he is willing to spend to get information he wants is a very personal decision. And if this decision is silly or not IMO can’t be judged by others in a meaningful way because people are rather different in the way they approach things and what may be a very important information from the personal perspective of A may be without any personal value from the personal perspective of B.

But because you did ask me in your previous post:

Max what do YOU think?
Have you tried any experiments?

I posted that I did not try any experiments because my personal curiosity concerning the question if I would like some amp with a different OT even better as I already do, is not deep enough to take the time and the trouble.

And concerning the original Dumble amps I/'ve play/ed my personal trust in Alexander's expertise is big enough based on my personal experiences with his amps that I personally doubt that I would like one of his amps better with a different OT. And because the Dumble owners who lend me their amps are interested in keeping them in 100% original condition, such an "experiment" woudn't be an option anyway.

But this is just my personal answer to your personal question "Max what do YOU think?" and is not meant by me as some kind of recommendation to others to think or do likewise.

Cheers,

Max

[talbany]

Here is a good one for you guy's.. We build amps shipped all over.. This one particular line we have we occasionally fit with the slightly larger Europian tap primary's for overseas amps.. After building quite a few of these we notice a pretty dramatic improvement in overall tone using the overseas power transformers..Could be something in the design winding pattern the wire or larger core don't know.. Point is I would have never thought a multitap power transformer could make this much of a difference in tone so much so we pay the extra money and use them in our domestic amps as well now.. Players have there own opinion, Builders have there own opinion and Builders who can play have there own opinion and references..

Tony

[ampdork]

Hey Tony,

If you talk to the Marshall guys they will tell of similar experiences.

[FYL]

After building quite a few of these we notice a pretty dramatic improvement in overall tone using the overseas power transformers..Could be something in the design winding pattern the wire or larger core don't know..

Larger core, sized for 50 Hz ops.

Better lams, 60 Hz models generally use M19, 50 Hz versions need M6 in order to minimize losses.

If you don't want to worry about multiple primaries, just order PTs spec'ed for 50 Hz ops, with large cores and M6 lams.

[Billion81]

There's a guy in Italy selling a PVW Twinkeland for €4,500.00 or 6300 US. Seems ambitious but..

[talbany]

I am sure they are wonderful amps but man but I just can't get past the name Twinkleland..Sorry

Tony

[hitchcaster]

Here is a good one for you guy's.. We build amps shipped all over.. This one particular line we have we occasionally fit with the slightly larger Europian tap primary's for overseas amps.. After building quite a few of these we notice a pretty dramatic improvement in overall tone using the overseas power transformers..Could be something in the design winding pattern the wire or larger core don't know.. Point is I would have never thought a multitap power transformer could make this much of a difference in tone so much so we pay the extra money and use them in our domestic amps as well now.. Players have there own opinion, Builders have there own opinion and Builders who can play have there own opinion and references..

Tony

so are we talking dumble clone here? also, paul from MM told me at the amp show that my "crappy" heyboer PT browns out with i turn the amp up and all the voltages drop whereas his MM don't. thought that was interesting. but i did pop in one of this twin PT's a while back and thought the heyboer sounded a hair better then MM. didn't crank it though and never tested the brown out theory...

[talbany]

Here is a good one for you guy's.. We build amps shipped all over.. This one particular line we have we occasionally fit with the slightly larger Europian tap primary's for overseas amps.. After building quite a few of these we notice a pretty dramatic improvement in overall tone using the overseas power transformers..Could be something in the design winding pattern the wire or larger core don't know.. Point is I would have never thought a multitap power transformer could make this much of a difference in tone so much so we pay the extra money and use them in our domestic amps as well now.. Players have there own opinion, Builders have there own opinion and Builders who can play have there own opinion and references..

Tony

so are we talking dumble clone here? also, paul from MM told me at the amp show that my "crappy" heyboer PT browns out with i turn the amp up and all the voltages drop whereas his MM don't. thought that was interesting. but i did pop in one of this twin PT's a while back and thought the heyboer sounded a hair better then MM. didn't crank it though and never tested the brown out theory...

The amp was not a D-Style more like a Fender Super style w/Reverb 50w.. The amp just sounded better overall at any volume.. Bigger bolder more stout..The original PT was a clone of a Blackface Super style nice big piece of iron and still by most standards sounded good..The multi tap better..
I've built quite a few D-style amps with both Heybour and MM Twin Style PT and prefer the MM a bit better in the Twin Style.. For the money the Heybor is a wonderful transformer and won't enter a debate on which 2 is better for you.. Iv'e not had any issues with Brownout on either transformer and I test these things cranked!!.. So I don't know what that statement is all about..
Take Care!!
Tony

[David Root]

Very interesting stuff Tony. Would we be naive to extend that (larger core) to the OT, for example a 100W Marshall OT vs a Twin OT?

I remember asking Jelle that some time ago about OTs and he said, not necessarily, both can sound good in their own way. I think that he was also putting it in the context of different topologies, but he didn't say so and I didn't think to ask at the time.

Has me thinking...I have a NOS Bassman 70 PT, export tapped. If I teamed that up with a pair of KT88s and a 70W OT of suitable primary impedance, I might have a very nice two tube powerhouse.