How loud should a 5E3 be?

[Phil_S]

OK, OK, I know this is a lame question. A 5E3 at its supposed 22W should be pretty loud in a 12'x12' room. I've got one I just built and it just doesn't seem like it gets as loud as I expected.

Other amps I've built or have in the 15-20W range, for comparison:

TMB-18W, this one is loud

Express variant with 6AQ5s, also loud

Gibson GA17-RVT, PP 6AQ5's, cathode bias, Va=~315, not so loud, but louder than the 5E3.

A thing of my own whimsy, 6SL7 two gain stages > 6AQ7 as concertina > pair of PP 6SN7's into a 9K OT. This is maybe 10W at most. The 5E3 is a little louder.

Tone seems to be what I expected...bloozy, plenty of grit. There's a bit of 120 Hz hum....need to think about that. What, though could be sucking power? Or is this an amp that's not all that loud?

I know this is subjective to some extent. Should I be looking for a problem? I just don't want to go on a fool's errand.

Thanks for any insights.

[selloutrr]

how strong are the tubes?


edit- what is the sensitivity of the speaker? how many DB at 1W? this makes a huge difference.

[Phil_S]

Actually, I wondered about both of these questions.

The tubes are RCA grey glass -- how used or used up, I don't know. This amp was built a couple of months ago, but, due to the open frame donor chassis, it has been waiting for a cab, that I've got about 90% done. When I test fitted the chassis, I figured it was time to see if the amp is any good.

I have an unmatched pair of brand new 6V6s (one RCA, one Sylvania). Maybe I'll try them.

The first cab I tried is a 1-10 Celestion G10L-35. I don't have the spec, but this speaker is probably not very efficient. I am going to guess ~95db.

The next cab is a 2-10 loaded with some NOS TAD clones of the sort of Jensen that was found in a blackface Princeton -- that would have been a Jensen C10R. This speaker is out of production. I have no idea of it's rating, but that was a bit louder and actually I think better suited to the amp. The TAD's have almost zero playing time and I'm sure are quite stiff.

I've got a pair of real-deal old Jensen C10Q's (I think they are Q, not R) that I can return to that cab and see what they do. What do you think? Worth making the swap?

I should probably mention, I'm using a Korean made PRS Soapbar II with P90's and this amp seems to take them very nicely. I can see this amp is really crying for a Tele. The P90's are on the hot side and produce lots of signal. I didn't plug in the other guitar, a Guild Starfire IV (like ES-335).

[labb]

I think that the 5E3 running 6V6's is actually about 15 watts, but at 15 watts through a high efficient speaker it should still shake the walls. Trying to remember but I don't think that it is as loud as the Marshall 18 watt.

[selloutrr]

Pick a speaker and try tube swapping.
After you have the best volume go back and pick the speaker you want to dedicate.
If it's a stiff speaker consider using one of the tubes that tests low to burn some hrs on the speaker to loosen it up.

Edit - it's not a super loud amp but it should fill room, they were made to play along with big bands.

[Phil_S]

Thanks for confirming "how loud" and for suggestions. A tube swap did the job. It is now more in line with what I expected. I just wasn't sure, having never heard one in person.

[billyz]

Mine will leave your ears ringing for days. I gigged it quite a bit and usually got told to turn it down. I have a Blackface OT and P12Q so I think it is louder than a standard model.

[Phil_S]

Billyz: Thanks. Mine isn't quite that loud. I think maybe it's the speaker. It was loud enough, though. Seems like yours is quite a bit louder. I've got to pick up my 2x C12R from the borrower this weekend. I think maybe that will do the trick.

[Cygnus X1]

Mine will leave your ears ringing for days. I gigged it quite a bit and usually got told to turn it down. I have a Blackface OT and P12Q so I think it is louder than a standard model.

Same here...far too loud for use in my humble garage.

But it had "the tone", now it's just sitting as a chassis waiting for a decision.
Whether to build a worthy combo cab, or a head.

I'm leaning to getting it into a combo.
I think that had much to do with the tone it had, and the volume, like a well tuned instrument.

[selloutrr]

If you are still unhappy with the volume the amp puts out. I would test all the tubes. It's already gained volume from tube swapping. but unless you know how much life is left on the tubes it's hard to say that a tube testing at 100% wouldn't put the amp right on spec.

[CapnCrunch]

A stock 5e3 (compensated for higher modern wall voltage) will put out no more than 12 watts. 22 watts is the claim for the blackface deluxe and deluxe reverb. A 5e3 with non-stock trannies may put out a bit more then 12 watts.

I can tell you that my 5e3 is not even close to as loud as my AC15. On the other hand, I've been asked by the sound man to turn my 5e3 down in an outdoor venue. 12 watts is still loud.

[angelodp]

I built a Mission 5E3 and its pretty loud. Have heard an older one that a friend has with a Greenback in there and its louder for sure. Have you tried a 12ax7 in place of the 12ay7?

[Phil_S]

A stock 5e3 ... will put out no more than 12 watts.

This puts things in a much better perspective. Based on the volume I'm hearing now, I'd say it is in the 10-12W range. Thanks for setting me straight. I don't have any sort of disappointment over this revelation. Quite the contrary. It is a real nice volume for home use.

I think the amp is good. I'll concentrate on finishing the cabinet now. I built this on a donor open frame chassis. It needs a shielded case around it, both for safety and RF. I've got to figure out some things -- faceplate, rear plate, how to secure it inside the box.

[Phil_S]

I built a Mission 5E3 and its pretty loud. Have heard an older one that a friend has with a Greenback in there and its louder for sure. Have you tried a 12ax7 in place of the 12ay7?

I wasn't necessarily looking to make it real loud. It just didn't seem right to me initially. This amp is done with recycled PT and an MPS 6600 ohm OT, which maybe the correct impedance, but not necessarily true to the original design. Thanks for your thoughts on this.

[telecat]

A normal 5E3 is about 12 watts. A DR is 22, much hotter plate voltages.