Boycot Arizona

[skyboltone]

We don't have too many people. By the way, in muslem countries and communities the birthrate exceeds 8 per woman. Dominance by attrition.

I understand that this is essentially our western economic model. I believe the model is wrong and needs to work for people with flat population growth.

Horsefeathers. The immegrunts come in order to participate in our economic model. Not because we have more space for people.

[Bear]

random vehicle stops to check ID: thats against the constitution which gives LEGAL RESIDENTS (and them alone) the right to be free from such interrogation.

B.S. Read the fourth amendment. Where does it say legal residents? I don't care that U.S. Senators utter such nonsense. It isn't what the constitution says. And it isn't the way any sane, responsible person applies it.

[David Root]

I'm not against controlled immigration, (our immigration in Canada is under Canadian Federal Gov't "control" and it is totally OUT of control, which is a dfifferent story), but it pains me that the argument in the US is often obscured by the spurious inclusion of national security (read terrorism) in the equation.

Ben Franklin was right about that. Those who would sacrifice freedom on the grounds of security deserve neither.

[dartanion]

I just saw a commercial for the 11PM news:

"A local city is considering boycotting Arizona, more at 11."

I lived in AZ for 3 years, and it is different than any other place that I have lived. The Gold Old Boys Network runs everything, the police are corrupt, and the highway patrol acts like highway robbers. I got pulled over once by the HWY Patrol for speeding, which is no big deal right? The officer harassed me and my wife for over an hour insinuating that I had stolen my car and that he was going to arrest us and we'd never get our car back. This because I didn't have the registration slip in the car, which wasn't required in MN and I had only been in AZ for about 3 months. I made this ass look like a total imbecile when I pulled out the original bill of sale from my glove box. Mind you he had his hand on his side arm while I was digging through my stuff to find it.

For the most part, Flagstaff is pretty easy going. Can't say the same for the Phoenix area.

[Andy Le Blanc]

The assumption of authority is bad enough, you can go to jail in the US
for just not recognizing an officer, the fact that your liberty and access to
basic human rights is up to the discretion of that officer, you are a subject
you will be prosecuted in accordance to the law, by another irregardless of
any action or criminality, is bad enough. There is line crossed by the
Arizona law that can not be tolerated, it will either be grossly justified...
or it will be grossly rejected, the issue of human rights in this country has
been festering since civil rights and the end of apartheid, and we are still left unequal.
This is the culture of fear, this is the real war on terror, are you a human or not.

In this age, in this country, under this administration, with our history,

How can you debate such a clear and unapologetic debasement of civility.

[jaysg]

I'm a bit confused by one tangent of the discussion. I heard them say that they will only be stopping people for probable cause...and not that they're probably illegal.

In the 80's, the San Diego Police did us all a service by repeatedly stopping and harrassing a black guy whose name escapes me. (I had a friend who knew him.) His schtick was to walk around upper middle class white neighborhoods at night in a white or cream three piece suit, with sensible shoes. With all that walking, he moved at a good clip, fwiw. Anyway, that went to the Supreme Court and they decided that the police cannot demand identification if there's no probable cause...after all, if you're not driving a car, where do they get off demanding your drivers license? "I'm walking," is a perfectly acceptable answer to, "What are you doing?"

I realize that laws do not negate abuse. Goes both ways though. Just because it's illegal to steal, doesn't make it rare.

[Cygnus X1]

Arizona has clarified it is indeed"probable cause"...which the rabid media does not understand.

Which usually indicates a primary offense (such as a traffic stop, a domestic violence call, or a drug bust) which then leads up to questioning ID.

When is the last time anyone here has successfully told a police officer to go pound sand after they asked for your ID?

Hmmmm?

Bottom line is this.
The Feds are simply not doing their Constitutional duty.
So AZ is pushing it to get it done.

States do indeed expect protection just as the citizens do.

[dartanion]

Again, have you ever been pulled over for no reason? I have? Why? Can you say "red sports car"? I was pulled over because the cop wanted a better look at my girlfriend and to hassle me. Gotta love small town America. This was in college over summer break.

[passfan]

Your parents being citizens of the country in which you are born.



Knock down the damn fence!! Give advantage to Hispanics for immigration. I know I'm the only guy in the country other the George W and John McCain who understand this.

Just one or both ?

I'll split the difference with you. One parent is enough.

And can that parent make "the drop" anywhere on the planet or does it have to be in the US of A ? I'm not trying to be evasive here just clarifying how this is to work. There is a dwindling group of people demanding Obama prove he is a citizen and his mother is American.
The one thing that comes to mind is that Arizona is looking for criminals. It is illegal to cross into our country without the proper documents and the act of doing so makes you a criminal.

[Structo]

Bingo!

[jaysg]

ah! I remembered his name.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolender_v._Lawson

[mcrracer]

Illegal immigration by its' very definition is...well...ILLEGAL! Plain and simple, send all of the illegal ones back, whatever color they happen to be. The people who wish to come to this country and follow the rules to become citizens AND learn English should be made welcome. What's so hard about that? Is this what AZ is trying to do?

[Bear]

The people who wish to come to this country and follow the rules to become citizens AND learn English should be made welcome.

[Realizing that this is only tangential to what you were talking about . . .]
There used to be substantial pockets of German immigrants and their descendants in the U.S. who did not integrate or stop speaking German as their primary language. All it took was two world wars. My point being that assimilation is not as easy as our ahistroical impressions of it make it seem.

[galtjunk]

The people who wish to come to this country and follow the rules to become citizens AND learn English should be made welcome.

[Realizing that this is only tangential to what you were talking about . . .]
There used to be substantial pockets of German immigrants and their descendants in the U.S. who did not integrate or stop speaking German as their primary language. All it took was two world wars. My point being that assimilation is not as easy as our ahistroical impressions of it make it seem.

Assimilation is very easy. But you have to want to. The illegal Mexican immigrants around here make no effort. They expect us to teach our children Spanish so they talk to their kids.


The legal immigrants do make the effort.

[Bear]

Assimilation is very easy. But you have to want to. The illegal Mexican immigrants around here make no effort. They expect us to teach our children Spanish so they talk to their kids.


The legal immigrants do make the effort.

The legal immigrants didn't when they were Germans. Why didn't they want to assimilate if it's so easy?