Healthcare

[M Fowler]

Unfortunately news is trickling down slowly today about how this is affecting VA healthcare nationwide.


Such a sad bill to pass. It's effects are going to be drastic and in a bad way.

[Structo]

Well, Mr. Jones was just a simple example of big brother is watching.
I was trying to point out the increased involvement of government into our lives.
Nothing is perfect by a long shot.

I take care of myself, not overweight and try to eat a healthy diet.

But, when I am working my wage package includes over $850 a month for health coverage. No dental.
My wifes wage package is similar.
So we actually are paying out over $1,700 per month for health coverage for two people.
We pay for the family of five that has three young children.
We pay for little Johnny's braces when his dentist decides he needs them.
We pay for Mrs. Jones hip replacement surgery.
We pay for Mr. Jones insulin and syringes.

I think that the health care industry does need reform and overhauling.
I just don't want the government acting as CEO over it.

If you talk to people that actually live in Canada or United Kingdom and not rely on Michael Moore's propagandist movie for information I think you will find a lot of disingenuous people.

Why do wealthy people and world leaders come to the USA for treatment?
Because we have the best health care in the world.

Less and less people are going to medical school these days.
They simply can't be guaranteed the income that the profession once garnered.
Liability insurance, lawsuits and poor medicare and medicaid payments do nothing for the bottom line.
So they go to work at an HMO at a reduced salary to escape the high price of malpractice insurance and the shield that provides.

Congress approved funding for 17,000 new IRS agents that will enforce the new health coverage laws, issuing fines to those that don't obey.
Not one red cent was given to entice people into medical school.

I simply don't think this is the correct course for America.
That is my opinion. I respect others opinions as well.
That is what makes this country great, we can express those opinions.

[Colossal]

Tom, I was definitely NOT trying to bust your balls, so <i>please</i> don't take my comments as such. You make some excellent and valid points. I was pointing out that I think people should take more personal responsibility for their actions. It's just like all of the credit card debt and leveraged households. People are less healthy in the US today and that is greatly increasing demand. But yes, with less medical professionals in the pipeline, there will be less supply and increased costs.

I completely agree that the system does need some overhauling. I had health insurance through my employer for nearly 7 years which I used very little before I went onto my wife's policy. The last month I was enrolled in the employer's plan I went for a physical. Somehow, this one time (out of very, very few in 7 years) the insurance management company for the doctor bungled processing the claim to my insurance company and I spent a full <i>year</i> trying to sort it out. It took 5 calls to an agent, 7 conference calls between both insurance companies, one each month, repeating myself over and over, documenting who I talked to, and finally I ended up going back to the doctor, getting a copy of my paperwork and faxing it directly to the right person where it was processed within 2 days of the 1 year statute of limitations. Oh, and I had to fork out another $350 for "services not covered" in addition to a $40 copay and a $90 "adjustment"...all for a routine physical. <sarcasm>I'm sure glad I was paying a monthly premium for all that time though </sarcasm>

I did my job; they must have been the other guy.

[jaysg]

But, when I am working my wage package includes over $850 a month for health coverage. No dental.
My wifes wage package is similar.
So we actually are paying out over $1,700 per month for health coverage for two people.
[clip]
Less and less people are going to medical school these days.
They simply can't be guaranteed the income that the profession once garnered.

In an effort to be helpful:
Tom, don't you a get break on insurance if either you or your spouse carries both of you? My numbers are like that.
I didn't quite understand all of the Mr. Jones stuff, but ime, the jump from two to family is huge because they don't differentiate between a family of three and a family of ten. That seems unfair to me, since I only have one child.

Your med school example is understood as intended but wrong in the details. There are no med school seats going unfilled in this country. There are very smart people who might have gone that way 30 years ago, but are seeking greener pastures because of all the years and questions about the future of the profession. It's well understood that in the future, most physicians will be employees of companies like Kaiser Permanente. Additionally, there is no impetus for there to be more med school seats. The profession controls that in an attempt to ensure a good living for all who succeed. Beyond that, ignore TV shows. Once you're in an American med school, there is tremendous pressure put on professors to make sure that all the students become doctors.

I have a relative who is an MD in one of the better known specialties. His residency was 3 years, back in the 60's. Now it's 5. It's not exactly slave labor, like the grad student racket, but it's more time out of your life.

Anyone going into Pediatrics ought to either have their head examined or be given an award. It doesn't pay well compared to dermatology, for example. The politicians will tell you that this country needs more 'primary care' physicians. That's being a GP, a Pediatrician, or an Internist -- the bottom of the food chain.

re: Mr. Jones. In 1980, his N & R insulins cost about $33 per month. In 2010, Lantus and Humalog cost somebody about $200...the insulin is better, but what happened to economies of scale?

[M Fowler]

What's really sad for the lest fortunate is my wife and I both carry health insurance as her company will no longer carry me on the policy into retirement and I had to scramble to get health insurance to carry into my retirement. Must have it 5 consecutive years prior to retirement to keep it. While other people can't even get insurance.

This is crazy and very unfortunate for so many going without health care or without the medications they need.

[Firestorm]

Check this out. A PROGRESSIVE'S take on how bad this bill is:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jane-hams ... 06026.html

[Allynmey]

Funny. There are a lot of intelligent people on this forum. The arguments posted are differences in economics, political beliefs, and compassion for the poor.

This bill is not about health anything....
It's only purpose, only purpose, is power and domination.

Never before in US history was there a tax on being alive...let that sink in.
I live in Taxachussetts who have had "Universal Healthcare" for a few years. I don't. They tried to take away my tax exemption and fine me. Tried...
After threatening to sue the governor and other pols (and their wives) for civil rights violations they went away. Maybe they figured the fed will deal with me in a few years.

If you still think it's about healthcare...remember, they will jail you, even shoot you to ensure you get good health care

[dartanion]

Nah. They will only shoot you if you don't contribute to their campaigns for election or even worse, re-election!!! Get rid of career politicians, and you'll be rid of career congressional frauds. Get rid of all the lobbyists, and our country will be much better off.

[Ears]

From an external perspective I've wondered why it took the US so long.
There are many things to admire about the US health system, uppermost being its ability to generate cutting edge technology, but from the outside looking in, universal delivery of care to its citizens isn't its greatest feature.
On the few occasions I've needed hospital treatment I've been most thankful that our public system here in NZ hasn't been modeled on that of the US.
There have been a few attempts over past two decades to privatise (NZ spelling) its delivery, thankfully they failed and have little popular support.
Some of the comment here, regarding governmental control and creeping socialism are imo, largely hyperbole. Every dollar within a system that is paid as profit to private shareholders is a dollar not spent on healthcare. In that respect I am thankful that the backbone of our system is fully public and taxpayer funded, no insurance middlemen bleeding it of their share.

[Structo]

jaysg,

Yes, when my insurance is active my wife and I have what is called dual coverage.
This eliminates most co-pay like office visits, prescriptions and I also get to use her dental plan which is pretty awesome. Like $45 for a crown.

I'll let the cat out of the bag, I was hesitant because they get a bad rap, some deserved, some not.

She works at Kaiser Permanente.
She showed me a document that was over 10 years old from KP that was talking about a national health care plan, I repeat over 10 years ago.

So I guess they saw the writing on the wall, and I'm sure they have some influence on politicians since they insure over 9 million people.
They have charted electronically since 1995.
So they have been preparing for this day for a long time and I'm also sure that the higher ups are privy to information not available to the general public.

My wife belongs to the SEIU which is funny since she is a medical assistant.
SEIU represents a huge diverse group. From house keeping staff at the clinics to the landscape guys that mow the grass on campus grounds.
They really haven't represented the medical assistants very well at all.
The MA's have tried to join the nurses union but they won't take them.
So in essence the person pruning the shrubs outside gets paid the same as she does although her experience and knowledge is easily compared to a nurse. They have cut down the nurse jobs at her clinic to where there is only two on duty at any time, which further burdens my wifes work load all the more. Like giving shots, assisting in minor surgery, etc.

Every contract they keep taking away benefits. Her retirement plan has been whittled down every 4 years. When she started there in 23 years ago, you got health insurance for life after retirement. Now you have to pay for it.

Anyway, we'll see how this shakes out.
Personally I think it will mushroom our national debt.
I wish Pres. Obama would concentrate on the economy. My state is still at over 10% officially and most agree it is really over 12%.
The construction trade is dead. I have been in a trade for over 32 years and I can't find a job doing it....

So yes, President Obama, start generating jobs through tax cuts or whatever, just step out of the spotlight for a while and stop campaigning dude, you won the election........
My unemployment will run out soon and I have no idea what to do.

[Aurora]

Normally I'd stay out of discussions like this, as national politics can be hard to understand without knowing some of the basic lines for a specific country.
I quite agree with Ears, about the technology level in the US health care system, and also all the middlemen dining on the same bill. I often read the discussions here in Garage Talk, without comments, although my fingers gets really itchy some times.....
I also agree totally with Ears, that while most of you keep yelling socialism as a general comment covering all Europe, you just don't have a clue about the European system, But , frankly - let's leave that discussion for a while, and make some real comparisons.....

Let's say we have a family, around 50, married, one minor kid at home - one in college. Hubby's making - say 100.000 $ a year. Wife also works full time - say 60.000 a year. Family has a mortage - 300.000 $......

How much in average will this family pay in regular taxes?
How much do their health insurance cost...? What is covered in terms of medicins, dental treatment, physi therapy, chiropractors etc.etc...?
How much in tuition fees for the kids?

I know it's hard to generalize, but let's give it a try..??
( And I know someone will get mad too ... ?

[M Fowler]

fukk time - say 60.000 a year

Are you saying the wife is hooker

[Aurora]

PHEW- luckily she don't read these pages!!! ROFL

[dartanion]

For profit healthcare is the major issue, and the way it is administered. If you think that you are not paying for someone else's health issues now, you're living in fools paradise. If you have health insurance through your employer, you are paying for everyone on the plan. All those out of shape, unhealthy people that you work with are part of your insurance bill. As well, from your taxes, we are paying for all those career politicians, their staff, and all gov't workers, medicare and SS disability recipients through our taxes. It only makes sense to make healthcare public, increase the pool, and bring down overall costs with economies of scale. If you have ever bought coverage as an individual and for a business, you will know that it is cheaper to buy for many than the few.

Reform is needed, but our politicians would rather make it a political issue and create a divide among the people to further their political agendas. Healthcare should not be a political matter. We all should have equal access to healthcare and not be limited by what healthcare we can afford. As a business owner, I would love to not have to pay out of my profits for health insurance as it would allow me to use the money to invest more into my business and possible hire more folks. But, with an expectation of providing health insurance, I cannot afford it and pay a decent wage.

For the most part, I rarely get sick, so it feels like robbery to pay over a $1000 a month for coverage that doesn't get used. But when it is needed, it sure is nice to have.

[mlp-mx6]

For profit healthcare is the major issue

How far do you take this concept? We all require food and clean water to be healthy, right? So why do we have to pay for it as individuals? How DARE those farmers and grocers and food distributors make a profit? How DARE those utilities that pump water to my house and treat the sewage operate in the black? (pun somewhat intended)