Some hints about Dumble now

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Funkalicousgroove
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Re: Some hints about Dumble now

Post by Funkalicousgroove »

dogears wrote:Well this comment kind of invalidates the "validity" of the other comments, although much sounds accurate none the less. Having first hand knowledge of this amp, this is actually the opposite of the truth. RF amp is the Mona Lisa of Dumbles and very easy to play.
mojotom wrote:Robben Ford one is almost impossible to play because he plays so softly.
I'm going to have to side with Scott, I didn't find Robben's amp tough to play at all, Far from it- It was very dynamic and breathy, and went into controlled feedback almost instantly-

The Mechanical connection is one thing I'm going to agree on, IMHO the amp should function without solder, This being said, I've not seen much evidence of re-worked solder Joints in the Dumbles I've worked on, and have certainly encountered connections held by the solder, as well as more than one occurrence of cold solder joints- so maybe a "do as I say not as I do" type of reccommendation? It seems that the more recent the amp, the better the construction-
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mojotom
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Re: Some hints about Dumble now

Post by mojotom »

About robben amp it was his point of view, mainly a point about the others amps dumble build now along with the ODS.

It seems logical to make a mecanical connection before soldering but I wouldn't think about checking resitance for each connection for a perfect 0 Ohms. This means he would check pF values of shielded wire and so on.

They uses JBL on the Marshall's and Dumble.

Tom
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ayan
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Re: Some hints about Dumble now

Post by ayan »

Funkalicousgroove wrote: I'm going to have to side with Scott, I didn't find Robben's amp tough to play at all, Far from it- It was very dynamic and breathy, and went into controlled feedback almost instantly-

The Mechanical connection is one thing I'm going to agree on, IMHO the amp should function without solder, This being said, I've not seen much evidence of re-worked solder Joints in the Dumbles I've worked on, and have certainly encountered connections held by the solder, as well as more than one occurrence of cold solder joints- so maybe a "do as I say not as I do" type of reccommendation? It seems that the more recent the amp, the better the construction-
Most likey, Dumble always ensured there was a good mechanical connection before applying solder -- e.g., wrapping leads on pot lugs. However, maybe not all mechanical parts were subject to the same degree of scrutiny... as in the case of the peek-a-boo washer hiding behind a cap's hot lead. :)

Gil
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Zippy
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Re: Some hints about Dumble now

Post by Zippy »

That peek-a-boo lock washer has serious mojo going on.
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ChrisM
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Re: Some hints about Dumble now

Post by ChrisM »

What amp is that Gil?
BobW
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Re: Some hints about Dumble now

Post by BobW »

glasman wrote:
Bob-I wrote:
glasman wrote:Speaking of soldering. Here is NASA's spec. THere is also a complete manual on the subject from the Army.

http://workmanship.nasa.gov/lib/insp/2% ... inals.html
excellent stuff. Is there a page on eyelets? I wrap the wire so that it contacts both sides of the eyelet but I don't know if this is correct/required for a proper connection. This is really difficult on repairs or changing components since you can't really get to the back of the board.

FWIW, if I spend more than 2-3 minutes on a solder connection it's a long time. :wink:
I have a small jewelers screwdriver to press and tighten the component lead or wire to the eyelet before I solder it. FWIW, I have not seen a document for eyelets. I
And for a good reason, Eyelets were considered unacceptable per MIL-STD-2000A and earlier versions (cancelled in 1995). This used to be the Bible for soldering and placement / spacing techniques. HAD must have been in the military at sometime, since he uses a lot of MIL techniques. I still today use the greater than 180, less than 270 degree wrap method for all turret / post connections before soldering. I'll bet you do too. :wink:
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Structo
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Re: Some hints about Dumble now

Post by Structo »

Whoa!

Looks like it arced as well!

[img:400:328]https://tubeamparchive.com/files/thumbs ... er_310.jpg[/img]
Tom

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Funkalicousgroove
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Re: Some hints about Dumble now

Post by Funkalicousgroove »

ayan wrote:
Funkalicousgroove wrote: I'm going to have to side with Scott, I didn't find Robben's amp tough to play at all, Far from it- It was very dynamic and breathy, and went into controlled feedback almost instantly-

The Mechanical connection is one thing I'm going to agree on, IMHO the amp should function without solder, This being said, I've not seen much evidence of re-worked solder Joints in the Dumbles I've worked on, and have certainly encountered connections held by the solder, as well as more than one occurrence of cold solder joints- so maybe a "do as I say not as I do" type of reccommendation? It seems that the more recent the amp, the better the construction-
Most likey, Dumble always ensured there was a good mechanical connection before applying solder -- e.g., wrapping leads on pot lugs. However, maybe not all mechanical parts were subject to the same degree of scrutiny... as in the case of the peek-a-boo washer hiding behind a cap's hot lead. :)

Gil

Now that's funny!! I don't care who ya are!!
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ayan
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Re: Some hints about Dumble now

Post by ayan »

Funkalicousgroove wrote:Now that's funny!! I don't care who ya are!!
Larry TCG... Git-r-done! :D

I think the washer is was actually caught in the cap's goop, as opposed to having arced.

G.
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Funkalicousgroove
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Re: Some hints about Dumble now

Post by Funkalicousgroove »

I've found a few rogue parts flying around in amps over the years, certainly not a Dumble Specific phenomenon :D You'd be amazed the havoc 1 teeny screw can cause in an SVT!!!
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Max
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Re: Some hints about Dumble now

Post by Max »

mojotom wrote:I have recently meet Kravitz crew and they work frequently with Dumble. I learn a few things :

-Every one is matched to the player, mainly depending on the guitar and string attack (or touch). Robben Ford one is almost impossible to play because he plays so softly.
Hi guys,

there have been some discussions here about this statement of mojotom.

My point of view:

Some precision in communicating sometimes helps to avoid misunderstandings.

Tom precisely said, that this was a statement from some of the Kravitz crew and not meant as a "hard fact" from the kind of "RFs amp has a Twin OT". Tom reported this as being the personal impression of some of the Kravitz crew - not more , not less.

So:

If some here (Scott, Brandon e.g. ) found RFs amp "easy to play" that does only say, that Brandons and Scotts personal tastes are obviously different then the personal tastes of those ones out of the Kravitz crew who found this amp "not easy to play".

BTW:
This is one thing I often met in regard to Dumble amps. Dumble himself once said in an interview, that SRV had a hard time with a n y ODS . So SRVs taste was obviously very differnet then the taste of most members here, who obviously have lots of fun with their ODS style amps.

I met a lot of ODS amps that have been fine for me and some of them even have been as custom made to perfectly suit my taste. But I also met some, that obviously had been built to suit other styles and tastes of players with a different approach and different musical intentions.

Some guitarist I know, don't like most Dumble ODS (but love Trainwrecks e.g.) because they feel, that most ODS are better suited for players with a softer touch. This is a kind of comment I often heard in regard of Dumble ODS style amps.

Now it is my strong believe, that personal taste is no topic best suited for any discussions at all. Some people like strats, others prefer Les Paul, some Fender amps, some Marshall amps, some Dumble amps, som Jim Kellys, period.

So, if the Kravitz crew had different feelings then Brandon or Scott in regard of the playability of RFs amp, this IMHO does proof nothing at all in regard of the validity or invalidity of what Tom reports. It only makes clear, that obviously personal tastes can be very different, what isn't something that new, or is it?

Cheers

Max
talbany
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Re: Some hints about Dumble now

Post by talbany »

I had something similar.. The little star washer came off one of the toggle switches didn't see it come off... lodged under the channel switching relay board..With the amp upside down worked fine when I flipped the amp over to put it in the cabinet the washer would flop over and somehow short the signal to ground..Kind of funny had that thing in and out of the cab 3 times before I figured out what the hell...

Hey Max..Do you think that The Kravitz crew had a tough time with the amp because it's not like a Fender and not like a Marshall just kind of it's own animal and not really relate-able..I think and this is my own personal theory that Stevie never connected with the ODS because of this,,,he said in one of his interviews that the SSS was like an overgrown Fender...Maybe the same with EJ

Jack Pearson told me he played a Trainwreck once and compaired it to a Marshall.. I can see that


Tony
Max
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Re: Some hints about Dumble now

Post by Max »

talbany wrote:
Hey Max..Do you think that The Kravitz crew had a tough time with the amp because it's not like a Fender and not like a Marshall just kind of it's own animal and not really relate-able..I think and this is my own personal theory that Stevie never connected with the ODS because of this,,,he said in one of his interviews that the SSS was like an overgrown Fender...Maybe the same with EJ


Tony
Hi Tony,

even if this may sound hard to believe for many members here:
I really met not that few guitar players who found, that some ODS amps they've played (especially some of the later "sykliner" amps) sounded a bit too "preset- sounding" or even "synthy-like" for their taste.

As far as I know, hat was exactly the same with SRV.
What he said is, that he felt that ODS style amps "take him away" from what he wants to do with his fingers. He felt that ODS amps "take control" over his sound to some degree and he felt better with the kind of "direct control", that in his view Winterlands, Dumblelands and SSSs gave him in a better way then ODS style amps.

I think the Kravitz crew simply did not find enough "playing comfort" (for their taste) with a certain ODS that has been custom made precisely for the playing style of RF. That's of course the case with "custom made" instruments and IMHO not surprising at all: A "Byrdland" is not for everyone.

Cheers

Max
talbany
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Re: Some hints about Dumble now

Post by talbany »

Hi Tony,

even if this may sound hard to believe for many members here:
I really met not that few guitar players who found, that some ODS amps they've played (especially some of the later "sykliner" amps) sounded a bit too "preset- sounding" or even "synthy-like" for their taste.

As far as I know, hat was exactly the same with SRV.
What he said is, that he felt that ODS style amps "take him away" from what he wants to do with his fingers. He felt that ODS amps "take control" over his sound to some degree and he felt better with the kind of "direct control", that in his view Winterlands, Dumblelands and SSSs gave him in a better way then ODS style amps.
Max
Thanks for the reply... I can totally see that being the case...The ODS no matter what variant alters my playing approach with any guitar..Not in a bad way just different..Allot of guys don't want to go through the whole process of getting comfortable with a different topology..It doesn't feel or respond the same I don't like it for whatever reason end of story... I had an interesting conversation with Dave Barber a while back where he at one time had a studio..He had quite a few amps for people to choose from Fenders, Marshalls and late 80's ODS.. He couldn't get people to use it..Everyone wanted the JCM 800..he said it wasn't that people disliked the amp just wasn't them.. He finally sold it...Same sort of thing w/PRS.. Not a Gibson not a Fender.. Don't like it..People are funny that way

Tony
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Re: Some hints about Dumble now

Post by Max »

talbany wrote:
Max
Thanks for the reply... I can totally see that being the case...The ODS no matter what variant alters my playing approach with any guitar..Not in a bad way just different..Allot of guys don't want to go through the whole process of getting comfortable with a different topology..It doesn't feel or respond the same I don't like it for whatever reason end of story... I had an interesting conversation with Dave Barber a while back where he at one time had a studio..He had quite a few amps for people to choose from Fenders, Marshalls and late 80's ODS.. He couldn't get people to use it..Everyone wanted the JCM 800..he said it wasn't that people disliked the amp just wasn't them.. He finally sold it...Same sort of thing w/PRS.. Not a Gibson not a Fender.. Don't like it..People are funny that way

Tony
Yes, most guitar players are very "conservative". You will have a hard time to persuade one to try an Alembic "Series 2" guitar.

I've just found the SRV interview in Guitar Player: That is what he said in regard of the ODS style amps:

"Some Dumbles - like the Overdrive Special - you've got to know what you're doing with them, because they'll get away from you and take you with'em".

Cheers

Max
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