Help me decide on my next amp!!!

[mchauck]

Hi y'all

I have been hanging around 18watt for a while and have built several styles of 18 watt TBMs and when 18watt went dark, I stuck my nose in over at Metroamps and built a 2204, which rocks! Anyway, feeling the need for something different, it was recommended by HeeBGB that I sit in over here for a while. I am a noob as far as theory goes, but I am learning bit by bit how these amps work. I am a much better guitar builder than I am an EE or a player, but I have a son who is really gifted. I have made him several nice axes he loves. I bought a Peavey Classic 50 a few years back that he favors over any of the amps I have made so far. The Peavey is a 4xEL84 amp with 3x12AX7s and a reverb tube. It has a pre and post PA gain that he likes and the reverb that sounds as if it mixes well with the signal. I have been looking at the TW and Dumble sections. Although I have some building chops, I think that a Dumble might be over my head. Maybe not. Not sure. The TW Franchesca looks like it may be do-able and the Express sounds really nice too. Is there a version of TW Express with a reverb built in?

I would really appreciate any input you may offer.

Thanks

Brian

[jaysg]

Although I have some building chops, I think that a Dumble might be over my head. [clip] Is there a version of TW Express with a reverb built in?

If you go with what amounts to a Dumble kit from Funk or Brownnote, I don't think you'll have too much trouble -- not speaking from experience, I just remember you from 18watt. No reverb on a TW, I'm afraid. I believe...and someone will correct me if I'm wrong, KF expected players to use stompboxes in front of his amps.

[mchauck]

Thanks for the reply...I will look at some Dumbles. I know very little about them. My kid wants a fairly high gain amp. He is very skilled and can make good use of an amp that is "touch sensitive" as I understand it.
Perhaps an ODS would be the ticket?

Brian

[dartanion]

Komet

Express

or

Liverpool

Those would be my choices for what you describe for your son.

[LeftyStrat]

Oh come on, you know you want to build both

Honestly, I don't think the Trainwreck really needs reverb:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2_12Ler9B8

Both are great amps.

Welcome aboard.

[mchauck]

Thanks Dartanion...you have helped me alot on 18watt (wow, rhymes!)

And thanks for your input here as well. Is there a TW that has an effect loop in the original design?

Brian

[mlp-mx6]

Don't think so. Ken Fischer actually described his amps as simple - no reverb, no effects loop, no master, nothing to get in the way of *your tone*. You may find a schem where someone *added* an effects loop, but it would not be as the original designer ever intended his amps to be built.

Not saying it's a bad idea, necessarily.

[LeftyStrat]

Is there a TW that has an effect loop in the original design?

I guess the TW and Dumble are probably at opposite ends philosophically when it comes to features. Dumbles (can) feature reverb, active fx loop, channel switching, etc. whereas the Trainwreck was designed with one feature in mind; the volume knob on your guitar.

The Trainwreck philosophy is "less-is-more." Use the fewest components and the fewest features to do the singular goal of making a lead guitar amp that responds to your playing like it was an extension of your instrument. To do this you build an amp right on the edge of stability, and only stabilize it enough to keep it from playing itself.

The Dumble approach is more, give all the features, but each one should stand alone as a perfect implementation of that feature. Heck, the Dumble active fx loop, the Dumbleator, apparently sounds so good some studios run signals through a standalone version just to sweeten the sound.

Strangely, there is an article on software design philosophy that pretty much nails these approaches to amps, and even calls one the "New Jersey Approach":

http://www.jwz.org/doc/worse-is-better.html

I think if you want to build an amp with features, go the Dumble route. If you want to see just how much can be accomplished with the least amount of features, try out the Trainwreck.

Both amps are the pinnacle of their respective design philosophies (IMHO), and as such deserve study.

[mchauck]

Outstanding reply LeftyStrat (not unlike the one I built my lefty Son)

I really appreciate your input. I think after reading much about the two, I will make a TW Express (I really like EL34s) or a Komet. If he wants reverb, we will mix in in later.

I will keep you all posted on my build.

Thanks
Brian

[dartanion]

Hey Brian,

You made a wise choice! The Express is a great amp.

[krash]

imho, if you want reverb, play in a big room

anyway I am a huge proponent of the "fewest components possible" school of thought and it's the very principle that permeates all of my own amplifier designs.

I always thought you needed an effects loop to really get delays to work right in a tube guitar amp but recently I went to check out a band whose guitarist recently took delivery of a Revelation 72 and he was using it with a LOT of delay and it sounded absolutely great. I need to ask him how he set that up time to rethink the assumptions I guess.

[mchauck]

Thanks Krash....I really prefer MY amps without the "evil verb" however, the kids these days...at least mine.....wants to partake. Oh well, I guess I need to go back and read Sidhartha again!!!!

Yes..Dartanion...I think I have settled on the Express as interpreted in Francesca. Are there any chassis kits avail that those here recommend? I could do it all myself, but perhaps it would pay better respect to Ken if I try my best to make her look and sound like one of his.

Brian

[dartanion]

Nik (Ceriatone) has a nice kit. However I think you could do it easily yourself too. Allynmey and Rick do chassis, Moose for Transformers, then your pick for parts suppliers.

[drhulsey]

... perhaps it would pay better respect to Ken if I try my best to make her look and sound like one of his.

I highly recommend the Express! It was my FIRST build and fired up like a charm I wasn't trying to build an EXACT replica, but I did try to replicate the layout, especially the lead dress as close to Francesca as I could. I have had no instability problems as yet I have attached a composite of the Francesca pics to yield a view of the entire chassis, and a composite of the pots. They were very helpful to me, and I hope they work for you

[mchauck]

Wow...thanks dr...How can I back out now????
I won't say anything bad about another site....but this is really starting to feel like home!!!!!

Highest...
Brian