poweramp-driven "liquid" distortion.

[Reeltarded]

I came to that based on your artist selections. The amp alone does most of what you are really asking for, and with a crafty compressor barely working it will sustain with a somewhat cleaner kind of tone.

That thing Mark is talking about sounds amazing. You might consider other options to come up with a few more dollars. Are euros at parity with dollars for now? Haven't looked. Doesn't seem possible...

Maybe you could find oneion the Detroit craigslist..

(That was a joke because you have to laugh at the government or die bitching)

[Edoardo]

I came to that based on your artist selections. The amp alone does most of what you are really asking for, and with a crafty compressor barely working it will sustain with a somewhat cleaner kind of tone.

Thanks. Yes, compression is in the house

That thing Mark is talking about sounds amazing. You might consider other options to come up with a few more dollars.

It's not just because of a lack of savings. Even when I gig, I would never feel easy about bringing back and forth (and leave alone) too "much" pieces of gear.

And again, a 4x12" would be a really uncomfortable piece of gear to own for me, from ANY point of view...! So I have to ask again... no 1x12" or head clones of this circuit? Or a similar one?


Also, what do you think of the 20-watt Ceriatone Lunchbox I've been addressed to, a few replies above?

Are euros at parity with dollars for now? Haven't looked. Doesn't seem possible...

Thanks god dollars are cheaper, but "1 dollar + shipping + customs + VA taxes" becomes 1 euro.

So A 800$ Ceriatone or Frenzel would cost me more or less 800€ in the end.

[MGW]

Sounds like you want custom boutique gear with cheap import prices. That ain't gonna happen unless you roll your own. The parts will eat up most of your budget and the time spent building and the fit and finish...lot of work. You may well can get the parts for a $3000 amp for $600, but (and I think most would agree) the amp is a bit more than the sum of its parts. There are HOURS spent building these things and making them sound like we want them. I've been tweaking a souped up JCM800 clone that Bruce Egnater helped me with for 3 years now. I'ts a great amp, I love it....but I still take the iron after it every now and again.

Good luck to you.

[vibratoking]

I'm not trying to be rude, but he does not want to build an amp, yet he is on an amp builder's forum. He also does not want to spend much money. He is possibly looking for cheap boutique. I don't know what that is. He also seems to shoot down most suggestions for one reason or another. I love the Hook, but what is special about him is everything but his guitar amp. I think the OP is confused about what he wants. No one is going to solve his problem with a post. He really needs to get out from in front of his keyboard and play through as many different amps as he can possibly find. I think this will help him work through his confusion. Hearing is the only way. The next comment will be "I live in Italy and there aren't many places to audition amps." Then take a trip or move. This thread is destined to become an interesting discussion with no resolution to anything. It's Garage Talk at best IMO.

Yes, I forgot my manners...I'm not apologizing for it.

[Edoardo]

Sounds like you want custom boutique gear with cheap import prices. That ain't gonna happen unless you roll your own. The parts will eat up most of your budget and the time spent building and the fit and finish...lot of work. You may well can get the parts for a $3000 amp for $600, but (and I think most would agree) the amp is a bit more than the sum of its parts. There are HOURS spent building these things and making them sound like we want them. I've been tweaking a souped up JCM800 clone that Bruce Egnater helped me with for 3 years now. I'ts a great amp, I love it....but I still take the iron after it every now and again.

Good luck to you.

Thanks...

I don't think I'm asking that much. I'm not asking for some Hi-end gear or "just that Gilmour's tone". I don't believe in giant killers.

Well, the truth is that I think I'd be "done" with a 1,500/1,700-€ amp, such as a 50-Watt HiWatt or the aformentioned Super Reverb.


But I've just seen a lot of sub-1000$ amp manufacturers around.
...Ceriatone, Frenzel, Carvin, Palmer and many others.

Since they all seem to be very valuable I've started reading and reading.... When it became too much to manage I've come here to ask, hoping that some more circuit-minded guys could help me in my search.

Cheers

[M Fowler]

Well maybe a reissue Fender Deluxe combo would work well for you.

That OTS Ceriatone lunchbox is a head unit so you would have to carry a
1-12 cab to the gig. The lunchbox could easily handle 5881 tubes if you don't like the tone of 6v6's.

I would start asking around where you live if there are any amp builders you would be surprised how many of us are underground not well known even in our own communities. Speaking for myself that is.

Mark

[Edoardo]

I'm not trying to be rude, but he does not want to build an amp, yet he is on an amp builder's forum. He also does not want to spend much money. He is possibly looking for cheap boutique. I don't know what that is. He also seems to shoot down most suggestions for one reason or another. I love the Hook, but what is special about him is everything but his guitar amp. I think the OP is confused about what he wants. No one is going to solve his problem with a post. He really needs to get out from in front of his keyboard and play through as many different amps as he can possibly find. I think this will help him work through his confusion. Hearing is the only way. The next comment will be "I live in Italy and there aren't many places to audition amps." Then take a trip or move. This thread is destined to become an interesting discussion with no resolution to anything. It's Garage Talk at best IMO.

Yes, I forgot my manners...I'm not apologizing for it.

I don't think anyone here believes I am shooting down suggestions confusingly.


I've been gaining lots of useful information from this thread - Thanks to many kind and patient "The Amp Garage" users - and again, it's not the kind of information you would as easily get on the average guitar forum. Or, for God's sake, in a music store!


I know like 2 or 3 stores within 100 miles from my place (mind fuel is 11 USD a gal here) where I could try half of the Marshall, HiWatt, Vox, Fender, Orange, (H&K, Engl, Laney, blackstar) currently in production.

But yes, the only way I have to get any information about a dozen more (and probably more valuable) manufacturers is foruming and listening to youtube demos - if any.

I indeed highly doubt:
- anyone in any of those three stores could address me to a guitar amp "with a push pull power section", or with an "oversized OT" or whatever
- I would be welcome if I asked to spend the morning cranking up 30,000€ worth of gear


Last but not least, it's the first time I see anyone being a treated like a fool or the cheap one for being willing to spend "only" a grand on a piece of audio gear.

And believe me I know what good audio gear costs and have lots of experience in the market.

I just don't have room for a 4x12" combo, I just don't want to roll a 100-Watt power section twice a year, I don't want to put an objectively expensive rig among too many drunk people or on a country festival stage. It's not being cheap, it's being reasonable.

Thus, I don't think I need too spend that much for my guitar rig.
Funny: usually non-professional guitarist get fooled for the opposite.


Man, I don't want to be rude, it's the first time ever I infringe the netiquette... Here I am the newbie I know. As such, I'm doing my best to behave as humbly as possible. But... Do you feel it is a waste to read me? Don't. Many other kind users here did and were very helpful to me, I'll thank them.

Cheers

[MGW]

I completely understand not wanting to haul around a 412 and a 100watter all the time...as well as the nice gear in proximity to drunks. Makes perfect legitimate sense. I don't think anyone here would argue that with you. "Tone" , such that it is, it EXTREMELY subjective. I have a Bassman, a hot rodded Marshall type, a Soldano X88R preamp with a custom power amp. Differnet strokes for different folks...some of us have a lot of likes. Each one of those amps sounds different, and I love each one of them for what they are. You have come here and admitted ignorance, which is fine as we were all there at one time or another, dropping buzz words and trying to find an amp based on everything but it's tone. PT, OT, push-pull, preamp distortion, power amp distortion, OT impedence....all of that is well and good and I really hope you are learning a lot, but it seems you're more worried about what's in it than what it sounds like. Do you know how an oversized OT changes the sound? If you do, that's great. If not, why talk about it. It's like you think if you get an amp with this magic combination of parts it'll do what you want. There's guys on here that can take an old radio from a junk yard and make something thatll tear you head of using nothing more than spare parts they have lying around. That's the caliber of folks you just jumped into the mix with. By the way...I'm not one of those guys...still quite the newb myself.

You are more than welcome here. I don't think anyone is trying to run you off, but you're asking guys who build amps what amp you need to buy...they are offering suggestions and, whether you want to admit it or not, you're shooting down suggestions left and right. Now somehow we're being rude by not offering an amp suggestion that you like. Can you see how it might be a bit frustrating? There are great guys here that will help you debug anything and share an untold wealth of knowlede. What they aren't gonna do is find your perfect amp for you.

SO...with all that said, welcome, learn, build. And you may want to go play some amps before you start trying to figure out what you need to buy. Ultimately, you opinion is the one that counts on your tone. Have you considered a POD HD or anything like that. It'll do anything, it is well within your budget. It's easily replacable should it come in contact with drunkeness.

Cheers!!!

[Edoardo]

Well maybe a reissue Fender Deluxe combo would work well for you.

thanks a lot, the reissue happens to go for 800-850€ here

That OTS Ceriatone lunchbox is a head unit so you would have to carry a 1-12 cab to the gig. The lunchbox could easily handle 5881 tubes if you don't like the tone of 6v6's.

well, I guess I'll need a cab also to play with it for myself thanks a lot!

I would start asking around where you live if there are any amp builders you would be surprised how many of us are underground not well known even in our own communities. Speaking for myself that is.

for some reason, here there are really a lot of underground Hi-Fi components builders and underground instrument builders, but I haven't come across any underground guitar amp builder yet...

[vibratoking]

...I indeed highly doubt:
- anyone in any of those three stores could address me to a guitar amp "with a push pull power section", or with an "oversized OT" or whatever
- I would be welcome if I asked to spend the morning cranking up 30,000€ worth of gear...

I think you are over emphazing verbal descriptions of amp topology. Push pull power sections and oversized OTs can sound very different depending on what circuitry is around them. You cannot generalize the 'sound' of these IMO.

If a music store has the gear out on display then you can assume that you are welcome to demo it. Any decent music store will invite you to try the equipment. That's how they make a sale. Yes, there are exceptions. The main thing is don't be timid. Sit down, plug in, and play your ass off. Who gives a shit what anyone thinks? You are there to conduct an investigation and educate yourself. THERE IS NO SHORTCUT IMO. YOU MUST PLAY THE AMPS. I would gladly drive 100 miles or more to have the experience of playing a bunch of amps.

As already stated, only you know what you like. I re-read the thread...you have shot down several suggestions without any 'good' explanations. The fact that the title of this thread contains the words liqud distortion yet you refer to the Hook's sound is utterly confusing to me. Those two things aren't even remotely similar IMO.

[NickC]

......... The fact that the title of this thread contains the words liqud distortion yet you refer to the Hook's sound is utterly confusing to me. Those two things aren't even remotely similar IMO.

No, not similar tone at all. Confuses me as well.

As much as I enjoy discussing guitar/amp tone ..... there are times it seems as futile as trying to teach a fish to ride a bicycle.

To OP:
Best advice is to play through as many different amps as you can get access to. Then choose the one you like best, that does most of what you want, and is affordable. Some folks spend a lifetime chasing tone. Getting caught up too much in chasing illusive tone might deprive you of the joy of simply making music. The music has to come first.

[Edoardo]

it seems you're more worried about what's in it than what it sounds like. [...] It's like you think if you get an amp with this magic combination of parts it'll do what you want.

cause I thought there was some kind of connection between the two.

I realize many different designs may make me happy, I'm not on the quest for the ultimate design, nor for my "end-game" guitar amp. Just something that will make me happy for a while.
I apologize if I've sounded pretentious on this.

You are more than welcome here. I don't think anyone is trying to run you off, but you're asking guys who build amps what amp you need to buy... they are offering suggestions and, whether you want to admit it or not, you're shooting down suggestions left and right.

Now somehow we're being rude by not offering an amp suggestion that you like. Can you see how it might be a bit frustrating?

Well, I apologize again if anyone has felt like I've asked about their competitors' products.

I'll have to re-read the thread for the shot-down though. Hear you guys later on this.

There are great guys here that will help you debug anything and share an untold wealth of knowlede. What they aren't gonna do is find your perfect amp for you.

SO...with all that said, welcome, learn, build. And you may want to go play some amps before you start trying to figure out what you need to buy. Ultimately, you opinion is the one that counts on your tone.

Have you considered a POD HD or anything like that. It'll do anything, it is well within your budget. It's easily replacable should it come in contact with drunkeness.

Cheers!!!

Thanks.

yes, I already own a cheap digital roland I use for headphone practicing and when "needed". I thought that things like the POD were more "effect"-oriented, though they also emulate amps. I think it will be a must-have if I'll start gigging more often

[katopan]

Pretty much any amp with two output power valves is push-pull. The exception is the fairly rare parallel single ended, and these will only be home built or kits.

I'm going to make some general statements here that there are exceptions to, and everyone has a different opinion about tone. But most vintage style push-pull amps with low gain preamps will allow you to push the output stage into heavy distortion, and with the right tone and playing touch they will sing. If you're after it from a preamp then something Dumble based is the only option, they tend to be expensive, and the amp already suggested is one of the only options in your price range.

If you're after something to gig with, and generally commercial amps don't have any form of power scaling /VVR, I think the first step is to work out what power level you need. Only you are going to have an idea of how loud you play and in what sort of venues. More is not necessarily better if you have to keep turning down below the amp's sweet spot.

You didn't say if you'd ruled out pedals, but check out clips of the Zendrive. You could get one second hand or someone could make you an RF Drive. Can understand if you want the amp to produce it though, as that is the preference of a lot of us.

[Reeltarded]

And others are just here to put the rest of us on a curb.. ie; making their own transformers.

Fools!

[M Fowler]

I won't get rid of my Zendrive, it's a great pedal.

I'm probably the only person that likes the Boss Blues Driver stock no mods.

Also, lately I purchased a Wampler Tweed 57 gain pedal.

A blackface Bassman in a 1-12 combo cab is my favorite flavor of the month.

It used to be a Marshall JCM800 1-12 combo and before that it was my 59 Bassman 4x10 after the honey moon with my Reverb Rocket petered out.

Miles yours such a bad host.