Do old school tube amps have more mojo then newer tube amps?

[Reeltarded]

Good or bad, what I used to consider separate personalities in the same models of amps now shows up as blandly conservative conformity in new garbage.

It isn't just component drift that made all these same amps sound different. They all had a special voice when I first bought them. Some of them sound urgent, some relaxed. A couple sound very modern for being 40 years beyond their life expectancy. In your face.

Old amps see the World in different ways. It is a shame that you can't find backups for some of them but at the same time you are just too lucky to get a crazy good one. 8 out of a hundred great, 3 out of a hundred WOW, and one of a kind OMG! So much more to chance in a classic build.

[10thTx]

Maybe the question should be qualified more?

Are we comparing something like a blackface Fender Deluxe Reverb to a Peavy or Crate amp?

OR are we comparing a blackface Fender Deluxe Reverb to a Dr. Z or BadCat or Fuchs or Matchless or PRS amp?

If the real question is pure tube vs. tube/PCB/solid state ......... the yeah, I think the old is better.

If the question is comparing old pure tube to new pure tube, then no I don't think the old is "better" just different.

with respect, 10thtx

[selloutrr]

Old tube to new tube is still a hard question to answer since most are basically copies of vintage circuits with modifications that were considered "mojo" now offered as OEM from the factory.

I have a theory about the actual perceived mojo.

Vintage iron and tube manufacturing was done with pure materials not post consumer recycled and additives. All of the environmental factory's and regulations play a huge role in the finished product. So yes I agree some vintage amps have a sound that is not able to be created today. The rest is drift in parts and how it was stored and used.

[rp]

You TAG geeks are all too technical - you're misreading mojo. See pict, that's mojo!

That a mid '60s Silvertone Twin 12 with a chipboard cab and Masonite baffle, covered in contact paper, with bottom of the line Jensens (C12S? IIRC) underrated trannies, a reverb tank the size of Toblerone bar, and a haphazard ptp assembly, plenty of brown or bright green turds, 45 years after it was made with the original caps, could sound like the Voice Of God - Is the quintessence of Mojo. So, yes old amps (can) have Mojo - i.e it has been beatified by some music loving force beyond us, certainly beyond Nathan Daniel.

...and, by inference, so can new amps depending what god you pray too.

[Structo]

Ha OMG!

Plate lips and an AK-47!

I have often wondered when the kids around here with the huge pierced ear lobes (gauges?) will start using the lip plates.

No offense to any of my pierced brothern.

[Reeltarded]

That. Is. Crazy.

[rp]

Lip plate! I thought it was a bowl of bean soup!

[rdjones]

To directly answer CJ's question, YES.
The older the design, materials and construction techniques used the further removed from current production you get.
Eventually you get to a point where the only similarity is the theory of operation of the active components.

Kinda like "You can't get there from here ..."

rd

I dunno. As much respect as I've got for "rd", I can't help but wonder if that answer is a little bit of a cop-out. It really doesn't come closer to explaining a difference we all recognize than "mojo" does.

It's only a cop-out in the sense that it avoids the religious discussion that requires one to believe in the existence of Mojo as defined previously.
If you believe no answer is required, if you don't no answer is possible.
The rationalization that any scientific explanation might give is dwarfed by the psychoacoustic evidence you hear, or convince yourself you hear.

reddog Steve

[Structo]

When I hear M0j0 used in conjunction with musical gear, guitars or amps mainly, I think it can be pretty vague unless we are all in the same room with said gear.

I hear it used more by non-technical individuals or, arteests if you will.

Like, "Man, that amp has a lot of m0j0."

You can approximate anything by design, but for some reason, a lot of old amps have m0j0.

Just don't dare to measure anything, it will drive you mad!

[crbowman]

I tend to think of 'mojo' as a kind of intangible quality kind of synonymous with 'cool', and usually acquired over time.
Really hard (and probably pointless) to put a finger on.
Just my .02.

[rdjones]

Maybe the question should be qualified more?

Are we comparing something like a blackface Fender Deluxe Reverb to a Peavy or Crate amp?

OR are we comparing a blackface Fender Deluxe Reverb to a Dr. Z or BadCat or Fuchs or Matchless or PRS amp?

My take is that the comparison is between an original handwired 1965 Blackface Deluxe Reverb and a PCB reissue.

If the real question is pure tube vs. tube/PCB/solid state ......... the yeah, I think the old is better.

If the question is comparing old pure tube to new pure tube, then no I don't think the old is "better" just different.

with respect, 10thtx

It's certainly different, and each listener has to decide if that translates into better.
One concern is how aging effects components and overall sound.
An amp stored out in the garage with the various temperature and humidity changes will age differently than one stored (and used) in a temperature controlled studio.
There's also road wear, stage abuse, smoke and so many other factors that can effect how instruments age.

I think as capacitors age they lose some of their Q, and that the oldest style of capacitors had lower Q to begin with.

rd

[LeeMo]

We all know that the best sounding amps came from the fifties and sixties.
The air was full of vaporized lead from the exhaust pipes of leaded gasoline driven infernal combustion engines. This vaporized lead settled on everything, including the circuits in tube amps. This gave an extra layer of conductance to the connection , thereby adding Meaux-Joe.
See, its really simple when ya think about it.




LeeMeaux-Joe

[loctal]

That picture is crazy, why are you still talking about mojo?

[statorvane]

I don't know about any magic in old vs new amplifiers, but I can tell you this. The older PLAYERS and PRODUCERS definitely had mojo in spades. I've never heard anyone get tones out of a Telecaster like Jimmy Page through a Supro, Hiwatt, Marshall, etc. And Blackmore certainly knew how to rev up your basic Strat. And Felix Papplardi certainly knew how to navigate the egos of a trio of prima donnas to produce Wheels of Fire.

Nothing in an amplifier that can't be wrung out by a good player/producer team.

[Reeltarded]

We all know that the best sounding amps came from the fifties and sixties.
The air was full of vaporized lead from the exhaust pipes of leaded gasoline driven infernal combustion engines. This vaporized lead settled on everything, including the circuits in tube amps. This gave an extra layer of conductance to the connection , thereby adding Meaux-Joe.
See, its really simple when ya think about it.

LeeMeaux-Joe

Odd that people who believe in mojo are from this 50s-60's time period.. OMG I'VE BEEN POISONED! That which does not kill me should run if it sees me coming.