Xits X10 = liverpool half power?

[Ian444]

So the 1k in series with the hv sec winding, what sort of voltage drop are we expecting here, what would be the change in voltage at the 1st reservior cap with and without those 1K's? My power supply theory just isn't up to scratch here...I'm figuring approx 70V difference based on 70mA current draw but that's got to be wrong.

[surfsup]

Taylor,

Surfsup, if you have the excel sheet for bom I would love to team up on the build guinea pig.

I'm going to email it to you. Its pretty basic but lays out the components and values at least (beware there may be a few mistakes too so double check it.)

I ordered up all the stuff (tubes, sockets, caps, resistors...) except the knobs, pt/ot, light, fuse and iec. I'm still waiting to get more opinions on the PT/OT choices from the experts before I pony up. Trying to figure out this amp without the V readings requires more expertise for "what would one do" that I don't have.

290-0-290 is a 406VDC rectified value without the 1k 5W resistor. to bring the plates down to 330V (same as the vox night train) that's a 76V drop over the resistor and diodes. Mouser's UF4007 are all listed as 1.7V drop so that's 3.4V across both so figure a 70V drop as Ian posted (nice Ian)...

this would be a 70/1000k = 70mA

But I am still unsure if these are for one side because it is PP. Can someone confirm?

Max power is (12W * 0.9)/330V = 32.7mA draw for the plates

So if it is one tube, 32.7 plus screen plus the preamp to be 70 means the screen and preamp are pulling 35mA which doesn't seem right. I also don't seem to find any el84 graphs going over 300V...man I still have a lot to learn.

[amplifiednation]

Taylor, I think you have been bit. Go man go. I am lusting on that amp as well.

Ange

Lets do it. I'm at work and just printed out the schematic. this should give me something to do here for awhile.

[surfsup]

I just emailed you the spreadsheet with some notes. Let me know if you don't get it and I can try to get it to you a different way. If anyone else wants it just pm me...

[Colossal]

Guys, before you start building...have we resolved the presence/absence of a choke resistor? Take a look at the enclosed photo comparison of ver1 (older) and ver2 (new) power supplies (click on it to zoom). You can see that big black resistor which, in our early discussions on this thread, we thought was a Trainwreck style 1k 25W 'choke' resistor since the amp shares a lot in common with the Liverpool. Now, in the more recent photos that surfaced, we don't see this resistor. I'm wondering if a choke was added in place of this resistor in the updated X10.

Thoughts?

[rawnster]

Looks like from the pic, he's using a choke.

[img:800:531]http://www.fatsoundguitars.com/store/am ... guts-1.jpg[/img]

[img:640:480]http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m310 ... G_3784.jpg[/img]

[rawnster]

I'm with surfsup, in that I think I'd like to give this build a go. Looks like enough info is there to make it happen. I got a few of those red PRP resistors from fishy a while back. Very nice...even for metal film. Need to figure out the choke size.

[Colossal]

Looks like from the pic, he's using a choke.

Rawn, I think that is the Sadie head, not the X10 but I do think they are using a choke in the updated amp.

[rawnster]

Looks like from the pic, he's using a choke.

Rawn, I think that is the Sadie head, not the X10 but I do think they are using a choke in the updated amp.

Oops, sorry, my bad.

[surfsup]

Glad to see a couple others as impatient as me! I look forward to doing this together with you guys...

rawnster's lower photo (one I originally posted) is not of the sadie, or the X10, there are three power tubes (unless one is a PI tube that is taller than a 12ax7?). I did not order a choke resistor or a choke yet. Thanks for the reminder colossal. Here's another photo but probably doesn't show more than we already know...

[img:800:600]http://chicagocadcam.com/ChrisHahn/schem/X10_2.jpg[/img]

[rooster]

Yeah, IMO, that has to be at least something like the Hammond piece, 411 ohms DC resistance, used in the Rocket. Mercury is making it custom for him, sure, but how far it strays from the Hammond piece I couldn't tell you.

The fact that he went this way is interesting, and actually, the fact that this amp is morphing over time surprises me. The video clips sound really good - what did we not hear? The builder must have thought it was an improvement?

BTW, MM could make a custom 1K DC resistance choke @ 400VDC and this could be the case. That's only going to be available from them or a custom from someone else. From my searches, it is not an off the shelf value.

Again, too bad it can't be measured in person.....

[rawnster]

Here's a first shot at a BOM. I was just making assumptions on the trannies. The price isn't cheap either. It's about $253 for that tranny/choke set.

Resistors
1k2 = 1
1k5 = 1
2k2 = 2
2k7 = 1
10k = 2
33k = 1
47k = 1
56k = 1
100k = 5
120k = 1
220k = 3
470k = 2
1M = 3
2M2 = 2

Resistors higher wattage
100R/3W = 2
125R/5W wirewound = 1
1k/5W = 2
10k/3W = 2
22k/3W = 1

Caps
47pf = 1
100pf = 1
.0047uf = 1
.022uf = 4
.01uf = 3
25uf/25V = 2
16uf/450V = 6
250uf/50V = 1

Diodes
UF4007 = 6

Pots
1M-A = 3 (vol, bass, treble)
250k-A dual (MV)
1M-A dual (MV option)

Switches
SPST bright = 1
DPDT power = 1
DPDT stdby = 1

Trannies
PT: MM Axiom VXP15-CC (custom classic)
OT: MM Toneclone VXO-15A-M ('59 Model|leads 4, 8, & 16Ω taps|vertical mount)
Choke: MM VXC (10H | 100mA)

Misc
1amp Sloblo assembly = 1
IEC plug
6V lamp assembly = 1
3 position impedance selector = 1
switchcraft input plug (shorting) = 1
switchcraft input plug (non-shorting) = 2

[Colossal]

Glad to see a couple others as impatient as me! I look forward to doing this together with you guys...

rawnster's lower photo (one I originally posted) is not of the sadie, or the X10, there are three power tubes (unless one is a PI tube that is taller than a 12ax7?). I did not order a choke resistor or a choke yet. Thanks for the reminder colossal. Here's a couple more photos but I don't think they tell us anything more than we already know. I think the lower one is a very early version of this amp.

[img:800:600]http://chicagocadcam.com/ChrisHahn/schem/X10_2.jpg[/img]
[img:640:480]http://chicagocadcam.com/ChrisHahn/schem/X10.jpg[/img]

Surfsup, thanks for the correction on the Sadie, but I'm sure that's not an X10. Also note the rubber vibration dampening ring around V1 in that photo. The lower photo you posted is of the X4. Single power tube, EF86 front end, single 10" Greenback.

[Lonely Raven]

Wow, what an amp!

I just stumbled into this thread, listened to the videos...I swear, I've not heard one bad tone from even the crappiest of the videos on you tube with these amps!

It makes me want to sell my big watt, high gain amps and get this little guy!

[surfsup]

I saw this PT might work?

XPWR121-100 by Edcor
Power transformer for a 100V, 50/60Hz. line to 580V (290-0-290) at 140mA center tapped, 6.3V (3.15-0-3.15) at 3.5A center tapped and 6.3V at 1.5A.

rawnster's bom looks basically the same as mine, let me see if a copy/past from XLS works (I have an extra 100pF in there, and the rail caps I have the sadie and X10 options):

Qty Component Type Value Secondary Value Description (sadie) Description (X10)
1 capacitor 0.01uF relcap v1 cathode
2 capacitor 0.01uF sozo PI input
4 capacitor 0.022uF Sozo 2-PI output, 2-tonestack
*1 capacitor 100pF
1 capacitor 0.0047uF fizzcap
1 capacitor 100pF sozo
*2 capacitor 30uF 450v Mallory - power supply
*3 capacitor 20uF 450v Mallory - power supply
**6 capacitor 16uF 450V Mallory - power supply
1 capacitor 250uF 50V
2 capacitor 25uF 25V Wet tantalum on Sadie sprague premium
1 capacitor 47pF

4 Diode UF4007 power supply
2 Diode UF4007 centertap

1 Fuse fuse
1 IEC Jack mains
1 Jack Input input jack
1 Jack Output output jack
1 LED indicator
1 Output Transformer output power supply

3 pot 1MA Vol1, treble, bass
1 pot 250k dual dual master volume
1 Power Transformer power supply

5 resistor 100k PRP - Precision Resistive Products V1b Ra V2a Ra
2 resistor 100R centertap
2 resistor 100R 3W
2 resistor 10k 3W power supply
2 resistor 10k V2a Rk
1 resistor 125R 5W wirewound
2 resistor 1k 5W ohmite power supply
1 resistor 1k 10W ohmite power supply
1 resistor 1k2 PI
1 resistor 1k5 PRP - Precision Resistive Products V1a Rk
1 resistor 120k fizzcap
3 resistor 1M PI, input jack
3 resistor 220k PRP - Precision Resistive Products v1a Ra
1 resistor 22k 3W power supply
2 resistor 2k2 PT grid stops
1 resistor 2k7 PRP - Precision Resistive Products V1b Rk
1 resistor 2M2
1 resistor 33k carbon comp grid stop
2 resistor 470k Vdivide V1b
1 resistor 47k PI
1 resistor 56k

1 Switch Main/stby SW3B DPDT on-off-on main and standbu
1 switch SPDT ON/ON impedance selector
1 Switch SW1 SPST on/off bright