Need help choosing which Fender clone to build.

[George61]

I don't know very much about Fender amps, although I did own a Super Reverb when I was in high school (1967).

I would like to build a small combo that is suitable for Jazz/Funk/Soul in a variety band. I am looking for maximum clean headroom, as in, absolutely no break-up at moderate volume. It looks like a Tweed low power Twin might be a good choice. A high power Twin might be a better choice but may be too heavy. I am currently using a Mesa-Boogie MKIII which is a back breaker. I do not need reverb or vibrato.

Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

Solder on,
George

[Stevem]

I concider a 2-12 combo" to be the way to go for the needs that you state.
A 2-12" amp with neo mag type speakers will be way lighter than your back breaker you have( I hate working on that amp just due to there weight! between chassis and EV driver!) I would also concider that some 50 to 60 watts of cleam RMS power will be the way to go.
remember from school the way our ears work, it takes 10 times as much wattage to make our ears precive a doubling in volume.
So to our ears a 100 watt amp is twice as load as a 10 watt amp.
By the same token just adding another speaker will near double the volume to our ears!
Dont skimp on the amps power transformer, have 20% more current on hand than the amp needs in regards to DC current on the secondary.
If you want 60 watts of clean power go with 6550 outputs, if 50 is your choise than good old 6L6GCs will fly.

[Milkmansound]

Deluxe reverb with a tweed bandmaster OT and 6L6?

You'll need a bigger choke and slightly more robust power transformer but it'll get you up near 40 watts

Edit - just saw that you don't want the effects. Tweed Pro is a monster amp! So is the Super

[Darkbluemurder]

Jim Kelley FACS
JTM-45/5F6A Bassman

Cheers Stephan

[didit]

I'd recommend a 5e9 Tremolux, but without the tremolo. It fits well in a 5e3 footprint - chassis 100% and just minor tweaks in layout. Fantastic touch sensitive amp. Lower power than a Pro or Super but more than Deluxe.

Best .. Ian

[Ken Moon]

If I was building something to your specs, with no reverb or tremolo, I'd design an amp with just the Normal channel of the 6G4-A/6G5-A circuit, but with solid state vs. tube rectifier, and 2 JJ KT77 power tubes.

These preamps were used in the brownface Super and Pro amps, and have a clean tone that I love for your style of music.

On the Normal channel, you only need 2 12AX7 preamp tubes, and the Bass/Treble tone stack is located between the 2 gain stages.

With only 2 12AX7s and 2 KT77s, the amp would be very reliable.

To tune the amp, I'd use a rheostat to dial in the value of a sag resistor to mimic the tone of the tube rectifier (probably between 100 and 200 ohms).

To get the clean headroom, I'd go with a big PT that would provide a B+ of about 450V at 250mA, and use a beefy OT too. Because of the big iron, it wouldn't be a lightweight like a Princeton or Deluxe,, but it would have big chunky bass that would, as my son likes to say, "move your bowels"

That's what I'd do, but that's just me

[didit]

Having reread the initial post and Ken Moon's response I've revise my thoughts. Ken's recommendation is excellent. Particularly the KT77. I glossed over the emphasis on clean headroom. Wonder though if you'd be even happier looking beyond the Fender preamp families to a James tonestack. For good examples look at Ampeg or perhaps Garnet's designs.

To expand a bit on my 5e9 recommendation: of the 50's circuits I found Tremolux quite flexible for lower power tweaking, allowing one to get fat tone with good headroom (for a tweed) in compact package. This is all presuming you start with a moderately oversized set of transformers and use power tubes from the 6L6 family; and the KT77 has worked great for me giving extra-clean headroom. But it's still a tweed and if pushed hard definitely goes into warm distortion.

Best .. Ian

[drew]

At the risk of being pelted with RCA Receiving Tube Manuals and cast into a pit of burning Roland Jazz Chorus 120s, why bother with tubes and DIY if you just want a small amp that doesn't distort? Just buy a small solid-state amp.

[George61]

At the risk of being pelted with RCA Receiving Tube Manuals and cast into a pit of burning Roland Jazz Chorus 120s, why bother with tubes and DIY if you just want a small amp that doesn't distort? Just buy a small solid-state amp.

DIY? I have been bitten by the build your own guitar amp bug - seems to be some sort of disease. I have built a 36W 'Marshall' (Richie Hall layout), a Trainwreck Rocket, a Elliott Sound Products P27 (solid state), and I am on the verge of completing a 18W combo so it time to start another amp. So far the 36 watter is the winner and the ESP P27 sucks hind tit. Even though I consider the ESP P27 to be the worse of the lot, it still not a bad amp. I just have a thing for tubes.

To my ear, there is a difference between clean sounds from a solid state and a tube amp. To me a tube amp sounds fuller and more up front and a solid state amp sounds smaller and more distant. I like the sag from a vacuum tube rectifier.

If I can build a decent, light, clean tube amp I could use it with the 18W combo and an A/B/Y switch.

[George61]

After listening to lots of sound clips, I would think that a Tweed Deluxe would suit my needs. The Tweed Deluxe seems to have very late breakup and would be fine for a clean rhythm amp at fairly low volume.

My problem is that I have no experience with 6V6 tubes. There doesn't seem to be any consensus on plate voltage and power transformers are available in a variety of primary voltages. I was going to try a primary voltage of 380-0-380. NOS RCA and Sylvania 6V6GT tubes are easy to come by.

Anyone care to throw in there two cents worth? Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Solder on,
George

[ToneMerc]

After listening to lots of sound clips, I would think that a Tweed Deluxe would suit my needs. The Tweed Deluxe seems to have very late breakup and would be fine for a clean rhythm amp at fairly low volume.

My problem is that I have no experience with 6V6 tubes. There doesn't seem to be any consensus on plate voltage and power transformers are available in a variety of primary voltages. I was going to try a primary voltage of 380-0-380. NOS RCA and Sylvania 6V6GT tubes are easy to come by.

Anyone care to throw in there two cents worth? Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Solder on,
George

What were you really listening to, an amp with 365V on the plates or 430V on the plates? Now a secondary of 380-0-380 seems too high to me if I was going to chase after actual period correct, voltages correct build, Then again, if you are after a very clean rhythm late break amp, then the higher plate voltage might would be to your liking.

I would save the NOS 6V6GT for lower voltage circuits and install JJ,EH or TS RIs.

TM

[martin manning]

I'd use this: http://www.classictone.net/40-18078.pdf

[rp]

5E3 is a nasty little thing, Hendrix in a box, that said it was also the in house amp at Blue Note in the '50s-'60s. So, it can do much more than make a Neil Young raucous. Though they were recording, I don't think you could play out with a 5E3 and have a clean sound w/ headroom unless you were solo or a duo in cafe.

Build the Mission kit. That kit is proven seven ways to Sunday from a man whose dedicated much time to the 5E3. Proper voltages are important to a sweet sound and I think the Mission is good there. Find the right speaker maybe a neo and with it's pine cab and small iron it'll be super portable. have a NOS 12AY7 for V1 at the ready, I'd think you'd hate a 12AX7.

Yes, you really want NOS 6V6s but IME no more than 370V on the plates with 250R and 35-40mA. I don't recall what my PT had off the secs, but I had Heyboer wind me one as I couldn't get exactly what I wanted, so I think it was 330-0-330 for 125V at the wall. You could up the rating to 120mA, may not be vintage correct but I like mine that way and you could up the filters just a subtle touch from 16uf to 22uf at least the first and second. If you find you need to tame the bark a bit, make it more 6G3, Mission has a mod for it.

You might want to find a reissue somewhere to try first, the volume comes up real fast on it so playing at low volumes it has hardly any range - make that no range. You might hate that. It an incredibly dynamic amp that swells like a hurricane and works with you. If you're used to SS or tube amps w/ too many knobs it might throw you off.

The good thing is that if it turns out to not be exactly what you expected you'll still have a 5E3 and everyone should have a 5E3 - your mom, her bridge club, the family dog - everyone. Got playing kids? It'll take them to a new level.

[martin manning]

I don't think you could play out with a 5E3 and have a clean sound w/ headroom unless you were solo or a duo in cafe.

...or mic it up.

Yes, you really want NOS 6V6s but IME no more than 370V on the plates with 250R and 35-40mA. I don't recall what my PT had off the secs, but I had Heyboer wind me one as I couldn't get exactly what I wanted, so I think it was 330-0-330 for 125V at the wall.

The Classic Tone part linked above is right there using the low voltage secondary taps.

[rp]

Martin, that's a cool PT. You could switch the amp to 6L6Gcs with the high taps and use a 5ARA, that should make the people in the front row sit up. Might have to mod the preamp power sting, but it gives you lots of options. Not sure about those 100V 110V taps, unless you're in Japan, as they'll just give you messed up heater voltages. No idea why manufactures (Hammond) do that. I had to have mine wound as I needed world taps and couldn't find 660V anywhere.