Octal 5e3 Build

[dorrisant]

Ordered a board from here on a whim:

http://www.tubesandmore.com/products/P-HTUR-33

Ordered a chassis here:

http://ddawgamps.com/Amp_Chassis.php

Thinking about this set of transformers, unless I'm persuaded otherwise:

http://triodeelectronics.com/5e3bundle.html

I have been reading most of the related posts here on TAG...
I want to use some of the NOS octal preamp tubes I have here... What do you guys suggest for V1 and V2? And what about the component values around them? Should I wire the octals up with 12ay7 and 12ax7 values and roll octal tubes? I know some of you have built one like this... Just asking what you thought you would do on a new build.

I really want to stick to stock values this one (besides the octals). I need to have one here to get to know on a very personal basis. Seems this is one of the most favored Fender and I have never played on one. Remedy that -build one. So even though I want to stray from true with octals, I want to try to retain stock tone and function. Definitely all four inputs!

I have a friend that will build a gorgeous combo cab... Then there is a question of what speaker... I'm thinking 1x12 but I would also love to hear the opinions about any other combinations you might loved.

Enough for now,
Tony

[Blackburn]

I built a 5C3 and play it on occasion. I used a couple metal RCA 6SC7s and still have them in there now. Not a fan of the grid leak biasing on the input stage and have been meaning to convert that to cathode bias. I like the cleans and semi dirty tones, but at not at all wide open. For a speaker, I'd say go with a nice AlNiCo, like they did back then. Are you planning on building something similar to that schem?

[dorrisant]

This one... Should have posted that. Except no chassis ground for the heaters, and most likely DC on the preamp tubes. Also no death cap, of course.

I want to start reasonably close to stock and tweak from there. Did you keep the 5e3 values in the pre? I'm assuming you did since you kept the grid leak. Let me know if you change that.

What iron did you use? I've never tried the Classic Tone trannies, could easily go with Edcor. Just thinking out loud

Tony

[Blackburn]

Oh, when I heard octals and Deluxe I assumed you were referring to this 5C3 schem. I used most of these values and I think you may be confused about grid leak biasing, since the 5E3 is all cathode biased. The 5C3 schem's first 6SC7 shows a grid leak bias. The 5C3 also has a Paraphase inverter, rather than the 5E3's Cathodyne inverter. I've built one 5C3 and multiple 5E3s. Interesting differences between the two, regarding the tubes, inverters, etc. Different strokes for different folks, I suppose.

I'd go with Edcor or Heyboer for trannies. Both are good options. I used Mercury Magnetics for mine. I don't spend the extra on those any more, but they're good trannies.

[Blackburn]

You did say 5E3 in the OP...

Maybe check out the values in the C schem anyway and try to implement the octals like you want. The 5B6 schem may also be a good reference point.

[dorrisant]

My bad... When you said grid leak bias, I promptly picked up a 5c3 schem and layout... I have several schems I have been looking at, too much crap around my area.

I have read where some have just dropped octals in the 5e3 circuit as set up for 12**7s. Kinda wondering if those that have done that ended up changing any values... didn't make that clear. I said it in my head, didn't type it.

Do you have any samples from your 5c3? I'm Still very interested in any of those circuits right now. It is a phase I'm in... Love it!!!

I wish I could build all of them one at a time and record with the same relative setup then post the clips for comparison.

Tony

[Blackburn]

It's all good!

If I had to describe the difference between the two, I'd say the 5C3 is smoother sounding and not quite as fizzy as the latter 5E3. Also a great jazz tone when clean. Very fat and a beautiful chime with those octals. A little dark and airy. Mine's still grid leak biased, too. The 5E3 is brighter and I suppose a bit more aggressive. More uneven sounding to me, because of the inverter. They both squash pretty bad when turned high up and that's where I lose interest, but Neil Young doesn't. I like the cleans and the slightly dirty tones with an AlNiCo.

I don't have any samples of my 5C3 build, but it isn't beyond the realm of possibility.

[JazzGuitarGimp]

[quote="Blackburn"They both squash pretty bad when turned high up and that's where I lose interest, but Neil Young doesn't. [/quote]

But don't forget, Neil stuck a pair of 6L6's and a big ol' cooling fan in his!

[Blackburn]

Yeah, I forgot to mention them 6L6s. I seem to remember reading that he had it converted back, no? I may be wrong. Did he have them in there on the Everyone Knows This Is Nowhere or Zuma albums? That's the epitome of the tweed Deluxe!

[JazzGuitarGimp]

Don't know if/when Neil went back to 6V6's. A 5E3 clone was my fisrt build. I love the way it sounds like it's going to burst at the seams when I turn it all the way up.

[dorrisant]

I love the way it sounds like it's going to burst at the seams when I turn it all the way up.

Care to post a clip?

Love the comments guys.

Tony

[Blackburn]

Don't know if/when Neil went back to 6V6's. A 5E3 clone was my fisrt build. I love the way it sounds like it's going to burst at the seams when I turn it all the way up.

My first build too.

I've played with that circuit quite a bit, adding the Paul C mods, NF and whatever else I can't remember to one of them. Fun stuff. Listening to Neil, I absolutely love those explosive tones he gets, but when I'm playing through one, I don't care for it. Maybe I need to get my hands on an original with its old parts and speaker?

[dorrisant]

Ordered these TXs:

Power - XPWR103-120/240
https://www.edcorusa.com/p/700/xpwr103_120-240
Output - CXPP25-MS-8K
http://www.edcorusa.com/p/429/cxpp25-ms-8k

So, if I convert to dc filaments, should it be on both octals, V1&2 or just V1?I may have jumped the gun on ordering the PT... may not be adequate.

Also ordered blank end bells... Gonna paint them red! Bummer though, Edcor wouldn't send any stickers along.

Tony

[Blackburn]

Because I have a reference point of something similar that you're wanting to build, I'll say that it isn't worth the extra effort doing DC heaters. My 5C3 uses two 6SC7s, just like the schem, and isn't excessively noisy at all, with regard to hum. I didn't even roll tubes, I just used the two I ordered.

Have you figured out what you're leaning towards for this build?

[dorrisant]

This one has been finished for a while now...

Sounds fabulous!!! No hum at all. I ordered the wrong PT (15v filament) so I had to order a separate TX for that... Lesson learned. Anyway, it is still AC heaters with the octals.

For now, JJ 6V6s. I have some GEs or RCAs for later, octals and rectifier are NOS RCA.

I need to get some sound clips.

Tony