GUITAR~AMP Stompbox/Rack/Effects ~ Chain Order LineUp ADVICE

[Toppscore]

Being new with rackmounts, what do you feel is a good order for my below effects?
Or maybe a good theory plan for a chain of pedal/rackmount that's works for you???


My pre-amp footswitches and pedals before Fender amps
and "not in any particular order" are:
* Peavey RockMaster Preamp
* DeArmond 1602 Volume Pedal (passive)
* Dunlop Crybaby WahWah
* BKButler Original Tube Works RT-4001 active DI Direct Input Box
* Stomp Boxes = MXR M-164 OVERDRIVE (+) Reverb, Delay, Echo, Chorus, Boost
* KORG DTR 1000 Rackmount Digital Tuner

==========================

Question: Does it really matter if the Korg Tuner is first (or last) in line from the guitar? or can
the Korg Tuner be added anywhere that's convenient “before or after” another rackmount effect?

==========================

I’m thinking of the following effects order. Please be free to tell me how bad my order is or make corrections,
so I’ll better understand reasoning for good or bad guitar signal paths towards a Fender amp.
Thank you for being “pleasingly BRUTALLY honest" with your kind comments I’ll still have fun
screwing around with the effects, but really would love to know who likes what and why?
. . . . and who wants to avoid a signal disaster and why?

1) Guitar out to Butler Tube Works RT-4001 DI Box * Hopefully, the RT-4011
will clean up “bad crud signals” picked up from the guitar’s
cable’s high-impedance load. Now, with a clean guitar signal . . . .

2) Butler Tube Works RT-4001 Box to passive DeArmond 1602 Volume analog pedal

3) Passive DeArmond 1602 Volume pedal to a pedalboard of desired stompboxes:
a) MXR M-164 Distortion, b) Reverb, c) Echo, d) Delay, e)Chorus, f) Boost
~ that’s it for the stomp-box type pedals

4) Stompbox pedals out to the Dunlop Crybaby WahWah

5) Crybaby WahWah to the Peavey Rockmaster Preamp

6) Peavey Rockmaster Preamp to a Fender amp’s clean channel.


Does this order work for you? Make sense? Some effects in wrong order? PLMK.

WHERE WOULD YOU PUT the rackmount Korg Tuner within the above lineup?

Thanks for your help and comments.
All items will fully arrive within a week (I hope).
Toppscore

[cpollack]

I'd put the wah first. The Cry Baby loads the guitar in a way that affects the tone and is an important part of the way the effect sounds. Also, I've never heard a wah used after the distortion generating stages that sounded in any way tasteful (my opinion of course). I also feel that it works best before any time-based effects.

Try it yourself and see if you like it.

I don't think the tuner location matters so much as long as all the effects are off when you are using it. Otherwise, put it early in the string.

My own standard set up is:

Cry Baby
Deluxe Big Muff (plays very nicely with the Cry Baby)
Stereo Memory Man (used as a mono delay, not a chorus)
MXR Flanger
MXR Phase 90
Boss Chorus
RAT distortion (used for maximum mud / '90s grunge sounds)
Dunlop volume pedal (mainly for volume swells)
Roland RE-301 or RE-501 Space Echo (used for chorus, echo, and reverb)
Twin Reverb, BF Bassman, or MusicMan RD50

Sometimes I toss in a Boss Noise Gate and/or Boss Compressor/Sustainor. I also use an Alesis Quadraverb GT, but don't gig with it.

[Toppscore]

I'd put the wah first. The Cry Baby loads the guitar in a way that affects the tone and is an important part of the way the effect sounds. Also, I've never heard a wah used after the distortion generating stages that sounded in any way tasteful (my opinion of course). I also feel that it works best before any time-based effects.

Try it yourself and see if you like it.

I don't think the tuner location matters so much as long as all the effects are off when you are using it. Otherwise, put it early in the string.

My own standard set up is:

Cry Baby
Deluxe Big Muff (plays very nicely with the Cry Baby)
Stereo Memory Man (used as a mono delay, not a chorus)
MXR Flanger
MXR Phase 90
Boss Chorus
RAT distortion (used for maximum mud / '90s grunge sounds)
Dunlop volume pedal (mainly for volume swells)
Roland RE-301 or RE-501 Space Echo (used for chorus, echo, and reverb)
Twin Reverb, BF Bassman, or MusicMan RD50

Sometimes I toss in a Boss Noise Gate and/or Boss Compressor/Sustainor. I also use an Alesis Quadraverb GT, but don't gig with it.

Thanks, CPollack. Much appreciated. Cannot wait to get it all together.
How do you like your RAT ~ Vintage or modern model?

[vibratoking]

I'll attempt to answer this question even though it belongs on TGP. In all seriousness, that's where it belongs.

1) Guitar out to Butler Tube Works RT-4001 DI Box * Hopefully, the RT-4011 will clean up “bad crud signals” picked up from the guitar’s
cable’s high-impedance load. Now, with a clean guitar signal . . . .

What are you feeding the DI output to? A DI box will not 'clean-up' any noise presented to it's input. I would typically use a DI to send a feed to the PA, so I would want it last in the chain right before the amp or better yet, pull a line level signal off the amp's output on the way to the speaker. If you think a DI is going to filter noise, you don't understand what a DI box is for.

2) Butler Tube Works RT-4001 Box to passive DeArmond 1602 Volume analog pedal

Volume pedal last or first for me. Depends on how much noise your effects circuit is generating and also if you want reverb/echos to trail after you shut the volume pedal down.

3) Passive DeArmond 1602 Volume pedal to a pedalboard of desired stompboxes:
a) MXR M-164 Distortion, b) Reverb, c) Echo, d) Delay, e)Chorus, f) Boost
~ that’s it for the stomp-box type pedals

Boost, distortion, chorus, echo, reverb for me. What is the difference between echo and delay? I don't get it.

4) Stompbox pedals out to the Dunlop Crybaby WahWah

Wah first or last depending on what you like. Overdriven/disto signals into the wah result in a more pronounced wah effect, and the wah gets a little washed out when before overdrive/disto whatever. There is a loading that happens when guitar is plugged straight into the wah. I like both and manually change it during shows depending on what I am feeling. You have to decide.

5) Crybaby WahWah to the Peavey Rockmaster Preamp

For the life of me, I can't figure out why you would need this given all the other pedals on your list. If I was to use a pre it would be first in line except for maybe the wah as desired.


This is all personal preference and just like the fuses and ABY switch, you have to experiment and figure it out for yourself. Discussing the order of effects is like asking if you should always paint a picture with the color red before ever using the color green or blue. There is no answer and you'll never get any painting done if you feel the need to continually ask. Toob amps dood.

[cpollack]

[/quote]Thanks, CPollack. Much appreciated. Cannot wait to get it all together.
How do you like your RAT ~ Vintage or modern model?[/quote]

It's an old old RAT in the big box. Kind of rusty and beat up, but it's awesome.Thick and meaty, but still cuts through (sorry for the technical terms ). I also use it with bass for a big f'ing noise. I play the White Stripes' "Seven Nation Army" and Zep's "How many more times" through it with bass and it's just huge.

[Toppscore]

Vibratoking "For the life of me, I can't figure out why you
would need this given all the other pedals on your list."

Well, I want them all to play with ~ life is too short.
Just wanna use them and try them out, see what sounds good.
Nothing to figure out
Nothing in cement
Nothing set in stone
Nothing permanent
More interested in TAG members experiences towards their
desired effects chain/line-up and why they made their choices.
I'll bet most of us own effects we do not use, and
I'll bet most of us do not use everything at once, either.
I just aquired a bunch of them recently;
and only used reverb, speed, intensity & VOLUME before.
Now it is effects time

Chatting with others, seems like distortion is the big center piece.
What one lines up before and after distortion are important decisions.
Good to know.
Wah Wah has more takers as being in front of distortation than after.
Echo/Delay is all in the same (pretty much, anyway).
All this info in just a couple of days ~ cool stuff.

[NickC]

The pedal board I use most has six pedals mounted in a Boss BCB-6 (plastic six-pedal case), in this order:

(1) Sonic Research Turbo Tuner (true bypass)
(2) Keeley Compressor (4-knob variant)
(3) Wampler Ecstacy (light overdrive)
(4) Wampler Pinnacle (heavy overdrive)
(5) Boss DD-7 (short delays)
(6) Boss DD-7 (long delays)

Those go into the front of the amp. I use that chain for rehearsals and casual gigs.

[ToneMerc]

I'll attempt to answer this question even though it belongs on TGP. In all seriousness, that's where it belongs.

This and the other one needs to be moved to the Technical Discussion area where it belongs.

TM

[JazzGuitarGimp]

[This and the other one needs to be moved to the Technical Discussion area where it belongs.

TM

+1

[Toppscore]

Thanks, NickC. Nice collection of pedals.

To me, IMHO, this thread is about what goes after the guitar including preamps.
~what makes the amp and speaker sound good. Kind of a tweener subject
No biggie ~ why I put it in the Fender section for my Fender tube amps

[LeftyStrat]

Thanks, NickC. Nice collection of pedals.

To me, IMHO, this thread is about what goes after the guitar including preamps.
~what makes the amp and speaker sound good. Kind of a tweener subject
No biggie ~ why I put it in the Fender section for my Fender tube amps

But you need to consider what people will search for in the future. Sometimes searching every subject will return too many results, so if I was looking for discussions on fx ordering, I would probably limit my search to the technical discussion, and completely miss this thread.

TAG is a great resource where you can spend hours going over old threads and learning a lot. Heck, half the time I use google to search for something amp related, the top hit is TAG.

I've also seen a couple of posts where people post the same question in two different forums. Most of the regulars here read all new messages, so it doesn't equate to more exposure, it equates to more annoyance, especially if we have to follow two different threads on the same subject.

Generally, when I have a question, I search old posts first, then take some time to choose a forum most appropriate. If I can't decide, I go with Garage Talk, anything goes there.

[Toppscore]

Thanks, Lefty.

Lefty: Can you please move this discussion to the correct forum
or technical discussions? I'd appreciate it.
Don't want to offend anyone. Thanks.




.

[Toppscore]

Vibratoking: “What are you feeding the DI output to? A DI box will not 'clean-up' any noise presented to it's input. I would typically use a DI to send a feed to the PA, so I would want it last in the chain right before the amp or better yet, pull a line level signal off the amp's output on the way to the speaker. If you think a DI is going to filter noise, you don't understand what a DI box is for.”


Hi, Vibratoking! Please help me better understand. I purchased the BK Butler Tube Works RT-4001 direct input DI box because of the typical RT-4001 information presented below. They claim that this tube driver DI box is not your nomal box. Can that be true? I included a link. I notice that many/most direct input DI boxes are used towards recording/mixer inputs, not in the instrument to amp effects chain ~ I do understand.
But, is the RT-4001 different/unique ~ or did I not understand

Please notice how many times the comments mention output signal from guitar/instruments (underlined)? Did I misunderstand or are the comments not correct? Bottom line ~ very interested if i misunderstood and the RT-4001 is not for me

My goal was to have a front-end guitar clean-boost signal driver before the amp and/or before an effects chain to deliver strong and clean signals from the pickups to the destination. Could always use a boost pedal, but the RT-4001 is supposed to be a "step-up" in quality/tone

Is this DI box "different" than other DI boxes ~ and can be used before the guitar amplifer?
Or, even after the preamp and before the guitar amplifer?
Did I make a mistake? Is the info not valid?
I can always resell it. Thanks for anyone’s response.


========================
Up for auction is a Real Tube RT-4001 Transformer-Less
Class-A True Balanced Tube Cathode Direct Output.

"WHY USE A DIRECT BOX? The output impedance from your instrument (guitar, bass, etc.) is traditionally quite high impedance. This means That a relatively small electrical disturbance (hum and static from fluorescent lights, or proximity to power AC lines, for example) can sometimes get into your signal line and then be amplified along with the good musical signal you want. Additionally, high impedance is prone to capacitive losses in the guitar cord itself, reducing the high-end response of your instrument."

"The RTD will convert your instrument's high impedance output to a very low (less than 100 ohms) output. This output can then be sent through a much longer cable (50 feet is not uncommon) without any additional hum pick-up or high end losses. Your instrument will be noticeably brighter and actually more "direct" sounding. Conversion to low impedance makes the musical electrical signal virtually immune from outside interference. In addition to providing low impedance output, your RTD also converts your single-ended (2-wire) instrument signal into a professional true balanced (3-wire) microphone level send for direct connection to the microphone input of a mixing console."

"The above-mentioned functions of the RTD are pretty typical of most garden-variety direct Boxes. What is not typical of the RTD vs. other typical direct boxes is the incredible REAL TUBE tonal enhancement the RTD gives your instrument! All outputs are direct "Class A” tube. Before warned: after experiencing the RTD, other direct boxes will fail to satisfy."

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/k ... -173537265