Any guitarists using in-ear monitors?

[JazzGuitarGimp]

Howdy Taggers!

It has been proposed that my band consider in-ear monitors. I've never tried them, and I know this can only sound snobbish, but as a guitarist, I am thinking that I am the only one in the group who should not use them, because, of course, I have to monitor my TONE in real time, and directly in the room (How's that for a run-on sentence?)

Are there any guitarists here that have experience with in-ears's? Do you use one, or two in-ear monitors? Does it feel as "cut-off" from the real world as I am imagining it does?

Thanks,
Lou

[Leo_Gnardo]

Sometimes I'm that monitor mixer. It helps to have an audience mic or 2, and add that in to the headphone mixes, otherwise it's very "dry" with the ambience missing. Plus you can take requests without appearing to be deaf. "What? What?"

Better have a mic on your amp too JGG, but be prepared for it to sound different in the 'cans mix. Hearing one's amp thru a mic instead of thru the room can be disconcerting.

Another monitor trick is to add reverb to the headphones mix too. Without some ambience, it can sound dry as dust. "Like I'm singing into a pillow" according to one vocalist.

One of my monitor friends geve me the button that let me know I"ve "arrived:" Friends don't let friends mix monitors.

[JazzGuitarGimp]

Sometimes I'm that monitor mixer. It helps to have an audience mic or 2, and add that in to the headphone mixes, otherwise it's very "dry" with the ambience missing. Plus you can take requests without appearing to be deaf. "What? What?"

Better have a mic on your amp too JGG, but be prepared for it to sound different in the 'cans mix. Hearing one's amp thru a mic instead of thru the room can be disconcerting.

Another monitor trick is to add reverb to the headphones mix too. Without some ambience, it can sound dry as dust. "Like I'm singing into a pillow" according to one vocalist.

One of my monitor friends geve me the button that let me know I"ve "arrived:" Friends don't let friends mix monitors.

Okay, now see.... That's not making me any more comfortable here

Leo, everything you said aligns with my intuition on this. The funny part is, this idea is being driven by our keyboard player, who would rather hear her vocal bounce back to her from the back wall via the mains, rather than directly at her from a monitor. She feels like what she hears from her monitor is what the audience hears. I have tried to explain to her that's not the case, but I think what it comes down to is she's been in so many bands over the years that didn't have monitors (or a dedicated FOH sound man) that she has relied on what's coming back at her from the mains to set her vocal balance with the band (using mic and singing technique).

And of course, my biggest concern is that, as you indicated, I'm not going to recognize my own guitar in the mix. I have a couple of EV ND-408's that sound very good on guitar cabinets, but I'm not convinced it will work. Though I'm all for the obvious benefits: lower volume on the eardrums, less heavy speakers and amps to carry, no feedback - all huge pluses

Not to mention, we will be fortunate to find one sound man to mix both FOH and monitors. I don't ever see a dedicated monitor mix engineer in our future.

[NickC]

Leo hit the nail on the head; in-ear monitors requires someone to be in control of the system and mix it. Also to make sure it doesn't feedback and deafen the players for days-and-days (maybe permanently). Limiters (properly set up) on each channel are essential. In-ears are really dangerous if not handled carefully and expertly.

[jestaudio]

Tried them a few times and I find them hugely off-putting, I also find it kills the interaction in the band, certainly with my lot, we ain't pros and there is a lot of mick taking on stage.

[gui_tarzan]

I don't like them. I used headphones in the studio when my former band recorded a CD and I hated every minute of it. I can't stand having the isolation from the audience and unless I'm playing on a large stage in front of 20,000 people (that will never happen to me!) I don't want them.

[xtian]

Well, here's one FOR in-ears. I love mine. I got 2-driver IEMs from 1964EARS about four months ago. Wonderful.

I play regularly in several environments. BBQ restaurant, church, and medium sized theater. At every gig, we have a competent engineer, which is essential. The biggest hurdle was learning to trust the sound guy to do his job. Because my guitar and my voice are now so clearly audible to me, that at first I felt gunshy, like, holy crap, aren't I drowning out all the other musicians?

But the benefits are huge. I can bring a small combo--I don't have to fill the house with volume from my amp, and in fact the mix is far better with everything mixed thru the PA. My guitar sound is fine with a SM57. Also, I sing far better, because I can hear every little mistake.

The impressions cost only $30 at a local audiologist. The IEMs cost $425--not cheap. I can't imagine that more drivers gives much improvement--mine sound awesome. But, since I was testing the waters, I bought the cheapest wireless rig, the Galaxy AS900, like for $150. And I'm happy with it. Noise floor is a little high, sometimes a little pop or crackle, but not bad.

I often play with only one earplug in. Usually the one toward the drummer. The downside is you can't perceive the bass as well. With two in, I get a surprising amount of ambience from the vocal mics, though we have five in our band. Still experimenting, but totally sold.

[ER]

I don't like em. We tried that on some recording to reduce bleed, the tone and our playing suffered for it.

I like to feel the music in my whole body and in my guitar, not just in my head. I spend too much time there as it is, playing music is one of my ways of getting out of it for a while.

I like to think of the stage as one big instrument, not a bunch of constituent parts to be put back together through the mains.

[Gibsonman63]

I tried them as well and did not care for them. They are very isolating. If I was playing massive gigs and high volume, I could see the benefit. One ear was a bit more manageable. I was playing in a four piece band with two guitarists and everything mic'ed. We were running four separate monitor mixes, so everyone had their own, plus I was running the direct outs into the second channel of each wireless, so everyone could blend their own vocal mic against the mix from the stage.

I had about a $400 system with about another $100 in my in-ear earbuds and the other three guys had about the same setup. Singing is a bit different than just listening and my earbuds had a tendency to wiggle out of my ears while I was singing. If you are serious, I hear the custom molded ones are the way to go, but I have not tried them.

Most of my club gigs we have to watch the volume (Houston has a very arbitrary sound ordinance, but that is another rant) so that isn't much of an issue for me. I am back to playing in a three piece band, so I just keep it simple now and just put the vocals in the monitors. and only mic the vocals and a little kick in the mains for most gigs.

[eniam rognab]

only if its tube powered, no sand allowed!!!!

[vibratoking]

I like mine and use them unconventionally. This was discussed some time ago.

https://tubeamparchive.com/viewtopic.ph ... r+monitors

[JazzGuitarGimp]

Thanks for all the advice, guys.

Vibratoking, thanks for the link to RJ's discussion - I found it most informative, especially your post about setting up a condenser mic near you and blending it in with your vocal mic. Am I correct in assuming these are the only two sources in your cans - in other words, the sound man is not giving you a monitor mix from the board?

Do the receivers have the limiter built-in, or is the limiter typically part of the transmitter (or is it a stand-alone unit that gets patched-in before the transmitter)?

Are there transmitters that can accept multiple (four or perhaps five) monitor mixes, and transmit each mix on a separate frequency to the five musicians on stage?

Thanks again,
Lou

[vibratoking]

Lou, I use a condensor and I am the only singer in my band. I use the condenser to capture everything my ear would normally hear on stage. If the mix on stage is reasonable then what I hear is too. I mix my vocal mic with the condensor to get a little vocal boost. No need for a sound man as I keep a two channel tube preamp within arms reach on stage. I am my own mixer. I feed the outputs of the preamp to a Sennheiser wireless with a receiver on my belt. It has a volume knob which I can adjust on the fly and a stereo mix knob. It is a two channel system and is pretty much a set and forget system. In theory, the condenser is my ears and I love having a direct vocal feed in my head. It allows me to hear nuances and allows me to sing so much better and with less effort. The condenser also let's me hear and talk to the crowd.

My motivation for all this is a case of tinnitus and heavy handed drummers. Loud snares and cymbals do damage. My setup is just a volume control with the added benefit of hearing my vocal. It works very well and I don't no $%^&* sound man. I also have never needed limiters. The downside is that the natural way of hearing is removed. There are issues with plugging your ears with anything - even sound. Bone conduction and the loss of the natural aural effect are at play. It takes a bit of getting used to. It's the best thing that I know of and, for me, it's all DIY for the gig. I don't need to rely on anyone else for my sound.

[JazzGuitarGimp]

Thanks, VK. I too, have tinnitus, as well as hyperacusis. This band is doing pretty well at keeping the stage volume down. If fact, it's the first band I've been in where the drummer is using mostly electronic drums. But the keyboard player hasn't taken the time to volume-match her patches. So, occasionally, when she changes patches and hits the keys, I all but jump right out of my own skin because it is so loud. If I ever dreamed of using IEM's in this band, with a mix of the whole band, I will definitely need a limiter to protect my ears. I happen to be one of three singers in the band, and we do a bit three-part harmony, so it's going to be essential that I get the other two vocalists in my IEM's. I'm thinking it makes sense to have a small mixer near me to mix: my voice, a feed from the board with a mix of the other two singers, and a live stage mic. It looks like $600 is the least one should spent to get a quality, reliable transmitter & belt-pack receiver. I see that one can spend anywhere from $399 to $1,999 for a pair of earbuds from Ultimate Ears! Ouch!

[vibratoking]

My situation allows for a more simplistic approach than what you need. FWIW, I use Westone IEMS. They are local and I have engineering friends that work there. I am a beta tester for them so no cost to me. To be honest, I would most likely be using my musicians ear plugs if I had to pay. Now that I think of it, the whole thing is definitely not worth the money for what I get in return. I play a few times/month and I am already losing enough money in this endeavor.