digital tinnitus

[9pins]

The gig last night... The act had their own tech, and they ran a yamaha ls9
It was a good show, family xmass, not loud at all, in fact it could have been louder and still be very appropriate.

But this morning I was surprised that the inevitable tinnitus that comes with the work was as bad as with a much louder show.

The only difference in the small hall was the digital board.

I grew up on vinyl, I wont even listen to mp3, CD's are harsh, but this was a surprise.

Still trying to put a finger on it, and it was good show, any digital thoughts?

[Jana]

". . . any digital thoughts?"

. . . 1110001010110001010101010100100110100010 . . .

[Bob-I]

I read an article several years ago where the writer/doctor believed that hearing damage was less severe when the sound is pleasing.

I tried playing with a digital modeler once, my ears were ringing like a fire alarm.

All that said, for the past few years I've been using in-ear monitoring. The beauty of it is can still get the feel of playing with an amp but the volume is far lower. The main reason I use them is for the clarity of hearing everything.

[selloutrr]

digital converters are fatiguing. especially when they run any out board gear on the inserts. since the LS9 does not have the ability to compensate for the delay of the analog insert it comes back just slightly out of time. which is not really noticeable in the big picture however it causes serious sub contious strain as your brain trying to make sense of why it's happening or what is going on that is not sitting right. This is a huge issue Protool had this problem with plug ins on LE needing you to Ping the plug ins to auto adjust the delay lines to be correct. HD and up does this automatically.

Digital is also crisper and less forgiving, cymbals are more prone to cause fatigue. it's very easy to mix by how it looks then how it sounds.

Other then the ability to recall settings and copy and paste digital for the most part sucks. It makes life quicker but it also takes a lot of skill out of the art of mixing. If you have a rig you tour with. you set it up the same insert your card and recall all your settings and even your automation, protools backing tracks, and fx tempo maps. basically you hit start and if you have your timecode/midi synced with the drummers click track you are on auto pilot the work was done in rehersal.

[9pins]

jana your awesome

I've heard the ls9 insert issues from a guy checking shemicka C., It's good to see the
issue reiterated, but I hadn't herd (moo) the issue with Protool, thats interesting.

I was surprised at just how heavily the fellows with the act relied on "scene's-o-the stick".
I had the act again tonight, and a different guest tech, and herd (moo) complaints from
audience members about "loudness" and again it wasn't a loud show.
The tech tonight had far more experience with genre of the act too...

every room has its tricks, you can't make assumptions.

I did heard a new one tonight, one of techs had an experience importing a
virus thru a stick and crashing his board, wouldn't that be a great way to start a sound check

[NickC]

................

I did heard a new one tonight, one of techs had an experience importing a
virus thru a stick and crashing his board, wouldn't that be a great way to start a sound check

I never considered that alarming possibility of using a digital board! Who would have thought a digital mixing board OS could be vulnerable to a virus?

I'll stick with my 32 channel in-line analog desk.

[9pins]

Interesting ain't it, bad enough they could crap in all the usual ways...

[selloutrr]

was it actually a virus or a software version that was not compatable?
I've had that issue crash boards in the past.

It's very possible they could have gotten a virus using a shareware software to program on the laptop or using the USB drive for other non work related functions.

However if the board could be rebooted or powered down and operated at all with out having to send it back for a full scrub and reinstall it's doubtful it's a virus.

The software on most digital boards is Linex or DOS operated running it's own propriotary software not related to windows or macintosh. the exception being digico which links directly to Protools.

[9pins]

Now that I don't know, you hear things in passing, but he was adamant about it being a virus. software compatibility makes sense. All these issues do seem to rest on the assumptions
of the operator.

I run a substantial number of shows per season, enough that I start the process with a very different set of assumptions, I've started to think I'm the janitor of sound, or the sound check tour guide.

The acts rider was for a minimum of 32 ch, so they contract out, most small halls have 24ch boards, enough for most acts, but every venue has its limits.

I see these fellows come in with the one piece of gear that gets them the gig
but... They don't fully understand how to use it, and they haven't really run enough shows to fully understand the impact of their own assumption.
sure you have a digital board, sure you can BS you way through the gig, But the house guy gets all the complaints... from the act, audience, the promoter and the venue.

For example, the last night with the act, the guest tech pulls out a lap top and sets up Smaart as RTA in the booth, I was all excited, you had mentioned
smaart and I was very curious, but the next words out of his mouth were

Mmmm...jeez, I don't know. It was just a lot of pretty lights, useless .

And the guy was good to work with, good mix, good show, but by the interval a few in the audience are after me to fix it (not my show),
and the end of the night the act is head hunting for a tech on the next east coast leg in a couple years.

[selloutrr]

Sounds frustrating I've been in your shoes but in a larger venue with a very top knotch clientele. Guest mixers would come and go, most of the time i would mix. 100% of the time I was responsable for it.

Smaart is an amazing tool but if it's not calibrated it's useless for FOH. It would still work for relative SPL level matching and possibly delay lines however I doubt anyone would ever solo speaker components during a show. If they did it would be the last show they mixed.

[ckpop]

ah it sounds like a case of another tech using "the Smaart on the computer is telling me what should sound good" Ears first........Smaart second.

I travel on the road and if you dont understand smaart or know how to use your ears even is it doesnt always look right on the computer...........it's digital doom.

Selloutrr knows exactly what I am talking about

[selloutrr]

Agreed.

to much EQ and or compression makes for a very bad day.

It's so easy to get caught up in mixing for what "looks" right or pleasing to the eye on the digital boards that you forget to use your ears then when you are finished building your "awesome mix" it sounds like total shit. but instead of using your ears to correct it. you turn on smaart and start adding more eq... then it's still shit.. so more eq... now you have lost your gain structure, head room and your ability to move the fader and keep stability without needing .. you guessed it more EQ..

the solution to this would have been far quicker, easier and ultimately sounded better. first listen to the room with something you know so well if it's not just right you can pick it out in a second.

KNOW YOUR FREQUENCY by ear.

after you have a sense of what the room needs. fire up smaart and listen again. make sure the PA is in phase, delay lines are good, x-over is set, and then if needed adjust the EQ.
do you need to boost or cut? sometimes boosting one freq will save you from cutting several. (keep stability in mind) The less EQ you use the less phase shifting you will have.

Personally I mix very strangely. After the basic mix is dialed in. I only listen for things that are wrong or bother me.
It cuts down on ear fatigue and getting songs stuck in my head. You have to be able to seperate the tracks and listen to the parts as a whole as well as the mix. It frees me up to focus on cues and adding effects.

[9pins]

The fellow had smaart up on a lap top for show but didn't have clue, and he didn't case the venue during the show to validate his assumptions.
A RTA can be a usable tool but can also be very misleading

He did make his listening position sound good, but the rest of the hall suffered.
I have to run too much crap gear in to many crap rooms, and have learned to do the opposite.

your assumptions that you carry with you to a gig have a huge impact.
I think the guys walked into the gig with the assumption that the board was better so the sound must be better.

I start the process at the other end, any piece of gear no matter what it is, is garbage.
But you have to make it go as consistently and professionally as you can.
I don't care what it is or how much you paid for it, it's trash, even if it's the
most wondrous thing ever, its a turd and cant be trusted not ever...
especially if your feeling confident about it.

keep it simple stupid.

sellouterr is correct, and there are trends toward over compression and VX gets buried ,

[selloutrr]

line arrays by design dont sound the same in two places. You pretty much have to hope your mixing choices sound pleasing to most seats. General admission and outdoor venues aren't as critical to please everyone because the audience can move around. Outside you also don't have reflections (as many) to deal with. Though you are often running multiple delay line PA's.

The old stack flat PA SUB, MID, Horn where very easy to make sound good everywhere because they were on a flat plane.

[9pins]

A few things that come out of this, that I see other tech's screwing themselves into a corner with:

1; "your awesome mix"

2; "listen to the room with something you know"

3; "KNOW YOUR FREQUENCY by ear."

got any lube, these three statements come flying out the arse of every tech I've ever met.

I would start with:

1; is it loud enough?

2: can you hear it?

3; can you understand it?

4; will it feed back?

Questions and not assumptions. Before any other consideration

The best mix is no mix (simple mono), the room doesn't care what your think your hearing, and after years of working in sound you can't tell any way.

I run an average of 4 shows a week for around 45 weeks of the year.

your description of line array sounds like a bouncy room, no two seats have the same sound.
I like 3 way set up, its amazing how many guys avoid it and set only uppers and a sub, I be glad to have to worry about arrays, actually sounds fun.