Problem dog...looking for 2 conductor tape

[greiswig]

Somebody call the ASPCA!!!

So I have a dog that has grown tall enough that his head now sits at counter height. He goes into the kitchen and has to turn around, and it's easier to just drag his nose right over the counters and kitchen table.

...and much more rewarding! He's found that food is often up there! He's eaten entire cinnamon rolls (complete with paper plate and plastic wrap), a box of frozen fish, etc.

So I'm trying to convince him that the counter isn't a good place for him to browse. I've tried bitter apple and habanero sauce...which he actually licked off the counter and seemed to enjoy. I've tried the squirtgun trick. But he's too smart. So...

Devious and electrically minded, my brain immediately goes to setting up a dog shock fence right where his jowls would have to drag to reach the food. Trouble is, that's only one part of the circuit...gotta have a ground, and a hardwood floor is a pretty good insulator. So I'm looking for some kind of tape or wire that has two conductors that are spaced a quarter inch apart or something like that. Any suggestions?

[Zippy]

Probably more productive to teach him some more positive behavior.

If my dogs REALLY want something, they sit or lie down. Even my cat knows better than to leap up where there is food.

FWIW, I have never given them treats as a training reward.

What breed(s) is your dog?

[greiswig]

Probably more productive to teach him some more positive behavior.

If my dogs REALLY want something, they sit or lie down. Even my cat knows better than to leap up where there is food.

FWIW, I have never given them treats as a training reward.

What breed(s) is your dog?

We have done that, but then we're not professional trainers. They do have to sit and await permission to get fed, even. The problem is that he's smart enough that he just waits until we are out of the room and out of earshot for some length of time and has at it.

I've also tried training the family: don't leave food out! But if anything, training my wife and 10-year-old daughter is more difficult than training the dog. I blew my stack when I came home and found that the dogs had gotten into some chocolate, so they seem to have at least gotten that hint.

Anyway, they are both Greater Swiss Mountain Dogs. The big guy is 160lbs. at 18 months, and he's smart. The other one (a rescue, and his aunt as it turns out) is 7 years, 90lbs, and was apparently punished enough at her previous house that she gets the guilty look and posture even when he is the one at fault.

The one thing that makes this approach appeal to me is this dog's memory. We have several planters, and he loves putting his nose in to sniff the flowers. He did that in one planter, and a bee stung his nose. So now he leaves that planter alone, and goes to all the others. And he isn't deathly afraid of it or anything...he'll still pee on it. But he won't sniff the flowers. I have a feeling that one zap on the counter, one on the table would be all it would take to get him to stop.

[Structo]

How about running two wires a couple inches apart along the counter edge.
That way his sensitive nose would get the zap.
Keep the current low.

I made a shock box when I was a kid out of the little tiny transistor radio transformer, an electric motor to get the voltage pulsating and a 9v battery.
I made it so when you picked it up it shocked you.
I never measured the voltage but it was just enough to wake you up when you touched it.

[greiswig]

Yeah, if I can find some thin bare wire, I can just tape it in place temporarily. I'm hoping that there's an easier solution that won't be as prone to breaking, and is easier to set up.

[M Fowler]

A shock collar that has a sensitivity level so when the dog gets close to the source, unit on the counter, the shock goes off?

I have all small dogs now so I use a child gate (adjustable) to keep them out of the dining room and kitchen, might not work for that horse of a dog of yours.

[jhaas]

I have a newfoundland that has the same habits, he's trained us to not leave stuff available to him, so we haven't bothered to deal with it, but...

I've heard that mouse traps can work. Never tried it myself, but it would be a simple/inexpensive experiment.

-John

[greiswig]

I thought of mouse traps...man, that is likely to do a lot more damage than a milliamp at a few hundred volts! Ever had your finger in one when it goes off? Besides, it gets to be so obvious that there's a mousetrap there that this guy would just wait until they were gone. I like the hidden wire concept for it's built-in sneakiness.

One thing I'll do with all my pets, for example when we had an "invisible fence" around one property: I try it out myself first. If I'm gonna risk being cruel, I wanna know how it feels. Made my wife laugh pretty hard while I adjusted the intensity, too.

[selloutrr]

I've got a big 98lb Bernese Mountain Dog with a soft side for food. Dumb as rocks but so lovable he can get anything he wants. when it comes to prevention the best tricks I can offer is loud sounds and constant reinforcement. I've trained him to stay out of the kitchen and dinning room. words like "HEY" and "OUT". At first I have to escort him out but soon he got the point. You have to be firm and never give in.

The problem with painful tactics such as hitting kicking shocking yelling... It imprints not only a negative on the behavior but also on the person that did it or put it on. once this happens it may never be reversed each animal is different. you can to some degree use a shock collar much like training a hunting dog.

Maybe a shock collar with perimeter wire like they use to keep pets in yards you could use it to keep him out. I've had dogs power threw to get out and sniff butt and one would even trigger it until the battery would run out and then run free.

I guess you could lop off his legs at the knees or raise your counter and table heights.

[Structo]

I have a Rottweiler that loves to be with me.
She is a joy of a dog and super smart but when I'm in the kitchen I don't want her under foot.
I would say, out! and she would sort of obey but then come around the other end of the dining room and try to sneak in.
Finally I started taking the dish towel and winding it up. I gave her a few pops on the butt with the towel after telling her, out!

Then for a while I would have to reach for the towel and she would leave.
Now, she hardly comes in and if she does, a simple out! will do it.
But yeah, dogs can be a pain to train.
Little dogs, fogettabouit.

[Cliff Schecht]

I'm a firm believer in discipline. Only one treat a day .

[greiswig]

Heh! Good suggestions. Resorting to negative reinforcement is my last gasp. I've tried positive reinforcement, and this 160lb Greater Swiss Mountain Dog seems to get the idea just fine: as long as someone is around in the kitchen, he knows to stay out. As soon as we've been out for awhile (especially in bed), the light bulb goes on and he's on patrol.

The real training needs to be the people: if food weren't left out at all, this wouldn't be an issue. So that's priority #1.

Thanks, all.

[selloutrr]

it moght be to late but my dogs are crate trained not only does it give piece of mind when you are away but it gives them a place to call their own.

you might need to treat the house like a camp ground and put anything away that might attract bears

[dynaman]

Electricity might be fun, but the towel suggestion sounds cheapest and easiest. Portable too.

'Bout 25 years ago, my dad and grandpa tried to rid our old farmhouse of bats by using electricity. We tore down a part of the soffit and lined it with two layers of chicken wire that the bats would have to pass through. Somehow my grandpa hooked the chicken wire up to a battery charger and coil from a Model T. The bats would touch the wire and complete the circuit. They'd get buzzed pretty good and eventually die. Didn't do it for long cuz it smelled pretty bad. Yeah, I touched the wire just to see what it felt like.

Incidentally, we found that shock collars would work on our beagles until they got wise to the fact that they could eventually run out of range. They'd take off running and do flying somersaults everytime they got zapped, but they kept moving until the collars wouldn't work.

We were kinda hard on critters back then.

[David Root]

Double sided copper tape with conductive adhesive on one or both sides will do the trick!