Boycot Arizona

[Cygnus X1]

I understand your position Andy.

But what seems to be humanitarian on the surface
often devolves into a permanent problem where the
less fortunate feel entitled.

Life is full of tough choices.
Hard work still pays off.
We raise our children to be independent,
we didn't have children to be able to give them "stuff"
for a lifetime.

Same for the poor, and these illegals.
And I have known many legal immigrants that have done great.
Love America most of all because they know how bad it was back home.

[passfan]

Yes.....

It is a tuff subject, I would rather fall on the humanitarian side, to a fault.
It is too easy to make less of another for the circumstances of their life.
We do enjoy, a relative absence of true poverty. The grinding reality that
would make an "illegal" see the providence of such a endeavor is usually
lost upon those that don't have a good basis for comparison. Yes there needs
to be a practical solution, and it should not be one that makes less of a person.
It could be you that bears the brunt an other's inhumanity.

It is our turn to realize a solution that does not belittle ourselves.

I don't fault them one bit. They're trying to do better for themselves and their government cares nothing about them. What's worse is they stand at the fence and gaze into the land of milk and honey. They have wives and children just like us and they want better for them. Sometimes they just want something more for them to eat. Perhaps some forget that the problem lies with ineffective or unenforced laws and seek to put a human face on the problem. They're not at fault for learning how to play our broken system, we are. The fact that it needs to be fixed is indicative of the poor economic situation here right now. We didn't have this conversation back when times were good and everyone was working. We're having it now when CEO's are delivering pizza's. It's not readily apparent when you walk out your front door and look at your neighbors houses what kind of shape they're in or how many are on food stamps or unemployment. I admire you for your compassion but I am reminded of an old saying perhaps left over from the great depression days..."Charity begins in the home". It's certainly should be more apparent in times such as these.

[Cygnus X1]

Seems we are in the Orwell 1984 era of "newspeak" where facts mean nothing and you must speak what the Controllers want to hear.

Phil Jackson, Lakers coach in a "highly controversial statement" says this:

“Am I crazy, or am I the only one that heard [the legislature] say, ‘We just took the United States immigration law and adopted it to our state?’” Jackson said of the Arizona statute.

The Lakers coach then disputed the columnist’s assertion that Arizona legislatures had “usurped” federal immigration law -- an allegation widely made by critics who say the law could lead to racial profiling of Latinos.

Supporters say the state law complements federal statutes and deny any intent to target Latinos.

“It’s not usurping” federal law, Jackson replied, adding that the Arizona lawmakers “gave it some teeth to be able to enforce it.”

[Structo]

I guess a lot of law suits are being filed.

I don't think they have a leg.

All the California cities and others boycotting, what are they boycotting? The federal law that has been on the books for years and years?

How many ranchers and other innocents have to be killed before we put a stop to that transparent border?

[jaysg]

The ninth and tenth ammendments weren't toss-offs because they were on a roll....

[Tonegeek]

Immigration is just one of many huge problems our country is facing at the moment. Throw in unemployment, depressed wages, astronomical health care costs, the housing crisis, stock market volatility, education inequities, the failed war on drugs, terrorism etc. It’s becoming apparent that lack of oversight is part of the problem with the Gulf oil spill, salmonella outbreaks, and other preventable, problems that affect all of us. Notice that none of these problems have been adequately addressed by our government. Some of the common sense fixes you guys have suggested so far for the immigration problem, if adopted would make a huge difference. I am sure there are also fixes available for the other issues I mentioned. So, why is this not happening? Someone mentioned the Good Old Boy system in Arizona as being part of the problem. My opinion is that the Good Old Boy system is alive and well at the Federal level and it IS THE WHOLE PROBLEM. Corporate interests own the system. Follow the money and you will notice that many corporations give to both political parties. This has gone on long enough to the point that no matter what party is in power, the corporation is the winner. So the people elect the politicians, but the corporations are the beneficiaries. The public partisan bickering over abortion, immigration, healthcare leads to one party or another being in power. This makes the people feel like they are making a difference when really it is just a cover for the moneyed interests. Privately, the corporations continue on with the same behavior. We just bailed out Wall Street, GM, and countless other entities, and now are extending that to entire countries (Greece). But has anything changed to keep it from happening again? Goldman Sachs and many lending institutions are up to the same old shenanigans. It won’t change because our system is now an oligarchy masquerading as a democracy. We keep believing that voting out the bums is going to make a difference. As someone already pointed out, it’s not the illegal’s fault for wanting a better life. We, the voter/taxpayer have been lied to so it’s not our fault either really, but we are the only ones who can change it. We certainly suffer due to the way things are. Think about the influence corporations have on politicians the next time your wonder why companies don’t get busted for hiring illegal’s, why health care is so outrageously expensive, why the Gulf is being polluted, why there is not more development of renewable energy sources.

We can’t institute common sense reforms if we don’t first shut down the corrupting influence of money and power on our politicians. I am not sure how to do that, but I am fairly certain that is the root of most of our collective problems.

[David Root]

Tonegeek makes sense in many ways. I have been around long enough to see those changes in America, and other countries I have lived in, taking place over the last many years.

A hundred years ago the US Supreme Court reorganized the structure of capitalism in America by breaking up the robber barons' monopolies, which were instrumental in their early years in developing the needed infrastructure across the country that was so necessary at the time and required concentration of capital in order to succeed, which it famously did. It did that because they had become counter productive to the future.

Fifty years ago Eisenhower (no bleeding heart liberal, it should be noted), famously warned about the crazy right wing of industrial America, which we are dealing with today. He recognized that while they had delivered the industrial might that ended World War 2, that they could not see beyond their very success and represented a future threat to democracy in America.

Unfortunately no entity, whether it be corporate, personal or political, voluntarily relinquishes its power even when it has become a hindrance to the further development of the nation and its people. This is why the Supreme Court did what it had to in the 1900s......

It appears to me that in some ways we are entering upon a similar time when the wealth generating capacity of the country needs to be refocused on future needs, and not on the greedy indulgence of the few fostered by ignorance and venality in government.

In a very few years America will face major global challenge from a heavily militarized China, fueled by a vigorous economy derived from clever imitation of past empire builders. They are buying up sources of energy, metals and minerals in Africa, S. America, Asia and even in North America. They already own much of our national debt, which is fortunately a double edged sword for them, but still a real threat to America's ability to act internationally.

I would like to be around in 50 years or so to see how it all works out, but I won't be. I'm confident that America will eventually do the right thing and it will all work out OK, because history has proven that anyone who underestimates America is a fool in the end, but I am also sure there will be many wrong turns made and opportunities squandered because of unimaginative people in political power, until finally America does the right thing(s), like it did in 1941, for example. Hopefully it won't come to that, but if China eventually invades Taiwan it sure as hell will.

I'm a liberal but Teddy Roosevelt was right, and so was Tom Paine.

Here endeth the rant!

[CaseyJones]

Here endeth the rant!

Rant doth endeth? I think (eth) not (eth)!!

RantMeister in da House.


I think we should send all the "illegals" to Maine. Y'all can whine, bitch and complain that there aren't enough jobs for white people up here but picture this... Mexicans learning French so they can cater to the Canadians at Old Orchard Beach. I'd pay good money to see that, I would. Jimmy Buffet, eat yer heart out! I'd set my beach chair up and ogle the combination of senoritas and Quebecois bikini girls, Corona in one hand and a Molson Brador in the other.

Problem is Mexicans won't work as cheap as Maniacs, there's more money in pickin' apples or sumthin' and the Jamaicans got that all sewn up.

Then the leaves would turn and the snow would fly. I predict a mass exodus of seasonal "illegals".

It's really no joke. Mexicans in Minneapolis for instance packed up and headed back home. You know your economy really sucks when the Mexicans leave.

[Structo]

I wish they would leave my area.

But, why leave when you can draw welfare and housing subsistence?

Many times when I'm at the grocery store, if there is a Mexican ahead of me in line, they whip out their Oregon Trail Card (welfare) and pay with that. $200-300 worth of groceries not uncommon to see.
They don't speak English and can barely use the card machine.

Then the man of the family will bring up the rear with a case of Budweiser and pay for that with cash........

I have no problem with someone immigrating to the USA, just follow the rules and get a visa.
Become an American for better or worse.

[CaseyJones]

I wish they would leave my area.

But, why leave when you can draw welfare and housing subsistence?

Many times when I'm at the grocery store, if there is a Mexican ahead of me in line, they whip out their Oregon Trail Card (welfare) and pay with that. $200-300 worth of groceries not uncommon to see.
They don't speak English and can barely use the card machine.

Then the man of the family will bring up the rear with a case of Budweiser and pay for that with cash........

I have no problem with someone immigrating to the USA, just follow the rules and get a visa.
Become an American for better or worse.

T-Bag. I mean... Tea Party... er.

True story: The Founding Fathers were armed revolutionaries one and all and mostly drunks. Keep that in mind when you suggest "following the rules".

"Give me your hungry, your tired your poor I'll piss on 'em
that's what the Statue of Bigotry says
Your poor huddled masses, let's club 'em to death
and get it over with and just dump 'em on the boulevard"

http://vodpod.com/watch/3157673-lou-ree ... -boulevard

Lou Reed can sing almost as good as Bob Dylan.

[gearhead]

T-Bag. I mean... Tea Party... er.

True story: The Founding Fathers were armed revolutionaries one and all and mostly drunks. Keep that in mind when you suggest "following the rules".

And this means exactly what? Most revolutions involve armed persons. Everyone was mostly a drunk back then; water was bad. And besides, they hadn't discovered many other intoxicants (other than old Ben and his opiates due to gout).

Might you be reminded that these Founding Fathers went on to create "rules" such as the Constitution, which took an entire summer of deliberations and arguments in Philadelphia in 87. And then the Bill of Rights (the first 10 ammendments).

Yes, there were comprimises that ended coming back up in 75 years that tore the country apart. But they worked pretty damn hard to -try- and get it right with the conflicting interests at the time.

So, implying that following rules is not warranted cause the Founding Fathers weren't as pure as the driven snow is pretty ludicrous.

And although I do not subscribe to all the Tea Party tenants, and definitely don't consider myself in that camp, I am continually amazed at how childish and sophmoric those that make fun of them are. And don't even seem to realize it.

[Andy Le Blanc]

Hey Casey, the funny thing is that if you've had blueberries from Maine,
They we're probably harvested by an illegal, but they leave the fiddle heads to the locals.

I've heard something about you and tea bagging... er... tea-partying, but...
Lou Reed is just about where its at.

The maine medical is getting better, almost as good a Moxie on a hot day.
You should stop up and go plunking in the sand pit with a 12 or a 20 Ga.
at some clay birds, Vive a La Skow-vegas, run down to the bev-mart for a
gallon of trailer milk, or go goat roping at the Bob-In....

I think you ment to say the Dylan could sing almost as good a Lou Reed.

the greasy aliens have been replaced by slick BP lobbyist's, but they too we're sacked
and replaced by a Democratic plot to rule the next political under-verse.

[Andy Le Blanc]

Hey Casey, the funny thing is that if you've had blueberries from Maine,
They we're probably harvested by an illegal, but they leave the fiddle heads to the locals.

I've heard something about you and tea bagging... er... tea-partying, but...
Lou Reed is just about where its at.

The maine medical is getting better, almost as good a Moxie on a hot day.
You should stop up and go plunking in the sand pit with a 12 or a 20 Ga.
at some clay birds, Vive La Skow-vegas, run down to the bev-mart for a
gallon of trailer milk, or go goat roping at the Bob-In....

I think you ment to say that Dylan could sing almost as good a Lou Reed.

the greasy aliens have been replaced by slick BP lobbyist's, but they too we're sacked
and replaced by a Democratic plot to rule the next political under-verse.

deja vu..... creepy

[CaseyJones]

And although I do not subscribe to all the Tea Party tenants, and definitely don't consider myself in that camp, I am continually amazed at how childish and sophmoric those that make fun of them are. And don't even seem to realize it.

We Hold These Truths to be Self-Evident:

No matter how simple the task, no matter how elementary the question we can absolutely rely on a bureaucrat to get it wrong and to screw it up.

Every time Man makes something idiot proof God creates a superior idiot. There is no idiot superior to the idiot who relinquishes his or her Free Will to Government.

[gearhead]

And although I do not subscribe to all the Tea Party tenants, and definitely don't consider myself in that camp, I am continually amazed at how childish and sophmoric those that make fun of them are. And don't even seem to realize it.

We Hold These Truths to be Self-Evident:

No matter how simple the task, no matter how elementary the question we can absolutely rely on a bureaucrat to get it wrong and to screw it up.

Every time Man makes something idiot proof God creates a superior idiot. There is no idiot superior to the idiot who relinquishes his or her Free Will to Government.

Unless I'm missing the point, Tea Party advocates want less in the hands of bureaucrats (to screw up) and want the government to be -less- in their lives (ie -more- free will).