FYL wrote:US public debt as I type: $12,591,000,000,000
2009 86.1% of GDP, 2010 (est.) 98.1% of GDP
It seems that the frog eaters do much better, huh?
Uh, no. You conveniently left out: government spending, at 53% of GDP in 2001, is the highest in the G-7. *This* I do not wish to aspire to. Somehow I don't think that has improved much between 2001 and 2010. (and, to be clear, "improved" would mean spending LESS of the GDP)
And if you believe that this new law will reduce the deficit, then your ability to ignore history, and the bill itself, is too much for me. I cannot debate in the face of that much power.
FYL wrote:I'm just pointing out some *facts*.
And since the WHO's definition of "good" health care is not a universal definition, that "fact" is actually an opinion.
Last edited by mlp-mx6 on Thu Mar 25, 2010 5:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Wife: How many amps do you need?
Me: Just one more...
Structo, great points. Though I hate that folks are issuing threats of any kind - I do not support that in any way - I am also hopeful that those who were ignored in this process will stand up and make their voices heard.
Remember - government does not spend any money that it does not take from someone else by force. (unless they print it, which is a whole 'nother conversation!)
Wife: How many amps do you need?
Me: Just one more...
The Healthcare outrage from the millions is a positive !!!!! Thats why you should buy stock in pharmaceutical companies that specialize in High blood pressure medication. Cha-ching Cha-Ching.
people can whine about it or be one step ahead of the crowd HAHAHA
"Bogus comparison. You do not HAVE to own a car. Car insurance is a condition of executing a privilege. If I understand the bill correctly, every citizen will be FORCED to either buy health insurance or pay a fine. These are not the same at all. "
Really? I don't have to own a car. Ok, well, If I start walking to work at midnight maybe I'll get to work on time at 7. Most people have to own a car. if you want to use that arguement in a general sense to support your case then you are losing me.
Health insurance is going to be required so I don't have to foot the emergency room bill every time the uninsured walk through the door for something that could have been preventd for much less cost had they had insurance. How much of the 14,000 that I pay a year out of my own pocket will that save? It is quite clear you don't pay your own insurance.
"If you think "public option" and "competition" have anything to do with each other then you and I understand the concept of competition VERY differently."
So I guess the current system is competitive. I don't know what to say. The gov't doesn't pay CEO's or shareholders so there costs will be much better. Medicare's operating overhead is 3.8% while the privates average is 22.8% You're damn right I want a public option.
2 govt agencies, medicare and social security were both extremely solvent at the end of the century. After Bush and his cowboys raped them both for tax cuts to the rich, they are in trouble. They were run very well.
"I'd say the expectation of employer-provided benefits - which is a relatively new idea in the history of the world, and which is to some degree an abandonment of personal responsibility - is a significant driver there too. For that matter, the expectation that health "insurance" will cover every possible health-related expense is an even bigger driver here, IMHO. That is not "insurance" - it is a payment plan."
its about 30 years old. Nixon approved it when he realized it would eventually become a corporate cash cow. It was based on the forcast that healthcare costs would not be a feasible out of pocket expense anymore.
"I'd like to back up the conversation and find out if we agree on the definition of the word "insurance." As referenced above, what I see in the way health "insurance" is discussed and, say, homeowners or car insurance is discussed, I'd have to say they're completely different concepts. Either that, or you'll soon be able to buy car insurance the day AFTER you total your car and get full replacement. Your thoughts?"
with what context do you want to discuss "insurance?" The provider's point of view or the consumer's?
The only difference between health insurance and car, homeowner's etc insurance is this: people aren't things like cars and homes and boats, etc. My car doesn't have 4 kids depending on it. Moreover, man created "things" he didn't create people. It's easy to say no to someone who wrecked their car the day before; Oh well, get a new car. after all, there is plenty where they came from. Plus, car insurance won't make or break a family budget. So there is really no excuse not to have it. Most people in this country cannot afford health insurance without an employer. To buy it themselves would be the difference between living in their car or a home. If my wife dies from an uninsurable a pre-existing condition such as cancer, which is totally unpredictable because we don't really know that much about how the mechanics of DNA work, what the hell do I tell my 4 kids? Well, I could have gotten insurance, be then we would have to dumpster dive for food?
mac0611 wrote:
2 govt agencies, medicare and social security were both extremely solvent at the end of the century. After Bush and his cowboys raped them both for tax cuts to the rich, they are in trouble. They were run very well.
Huh? In 2000, Medicare was projected to run out of funds in 2023. Not solvent, at all, in the mid term. The thing that Bush did "wrong" was to push the 2003 Medicare Prescription Drug Act, which has pumped up Medicare costs.
The really cunning minds in this country aren't complaining...they're trying to figure out just how to cash in. Everything the government does is a huge opportunity for somebody...wish I'd taken classes in greed back in college
mac0611 wrote: 2 govt agencies, medicare and social security were both extremely solvent at the end of the century. ... They were run very well.
You know, I tried to not respond at all to this post, as there is no real point. But THIS particular point of argument is just so far off base that it's almost a joke.
The Social Security "trust fund" (what a laughable name) is full of little more than "special issue Treasury bonds." IOUs.
Do some research.
Wife: How many amps do you need?
Me: Just one more...
mlp-mx6 wrote:If you don't like that the Constitution charges our government with defense of US citizens then I don't know what to tell you. Live somewhere else, maybe?
I served my time - 6 years active duty, 8 years reserves...
