Teach your children well

[bcmatt]

Lefty, what's the Garnet Herzog? They put a l'il amp in the front end sorta? Garnet's one brand that's never crossed my workbench. Though somone threatened to bring one in a couple years ago. Gotta give 'em credit for naming an amp after a movie director.

Sorry, as one of the resident Canadians, I'm not allowed to let Traynor or Garnet conversations go unparticipated in.

Legend goes that in Winnipeg, Manitoba The Guess Who were messing around with plugging one amp into another to get cool fuzz sounds, but they were blowing up the amps within a few minutes. They would take them to Gar Gillies (Garnet Amps) to be repaired at his radio shop. He told them he could make up something to make it safe for the amps. Basically, it's a tweed champ with a dummy load and controllable line-out pot.
Apparently, Herzog was the name of a novel someone was reading at the time:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herzog_(novel)
I had wondered about that too because Werner started making feature films around that time too... but I suspect he was still relatively unknown.

Anyways, the release of "American Woman" and the ensuing popularity of the Garnet sound slowed down the rate at which people popped the "Garnet" name-plates off their amps due to the embarrassment of not affording Fenders and Marshalls. Poor Pete Traynor ain't getting his due either till now with the recent reissues and a few respected guitarists using his YBA1.
Did you know that Traynor was the first to make a Master Volume Amp?
As a Canadian, I don't know if I am proud or ashamed of that factoid...

[Leo_Gnardo]

Thanks bcmatt for the details on Garnet Herzog. I gather it's a separate overdrive preamp then, not built-in to an amp.

And Traynor - heck my first good bass amp was a YBA1. Got it from Drome Sound in Albany NY @ $275 including 2x15 cab. It was all I could afford in 1971 but it was built as well as any Fender and ran flawlessly until I sold it off in the late 70's. When I could afford better speakers @ 1975 I put a pair of EV 15's in the cab and that was audio nirvana for this bass player. Kicked myself for not having done it before.

I've worked on lots of old tube Traynors and there's nothing to be ashamed of, master volume or not. Made with pride in Missasauga!

Still waiting to meet a Garnet in person. I'm sure I'll be impressed.

[Zippy]

Cheers to the Traynor YGL-3 Mk III - the Canadian Twin!

That was my amp of the '70s - early '80s. I carried it in an Anvil road case 'cause it wasn't quite heavy enough. They hadn't learned the trick of using particle board instead of 3/4" plywood.

The removable top on the combo amps was one of the coolest ideas ever!

[Reeltarded]

So, the head and the cab were two separate parts that latched together?

Hmm...

[bcmatt]

So, the head and the cab were two separate parts that latched together?

Hmm...

No, it was just the top piece of the cabinet that removed and the cabinet worked like an amp-cradle for techs. I have two YGL-3a head versions that do the same; super handy!
Maybe that's why everyone mods them...they make it too easy!

[LeftyStrat]

Here's the story of the Herzog:

http://www.garnetamps.com/zog_story.htm

I do work for a local guitarist that discovered the magic of Garnet amps. He keeps finding pawn shop steals and brings them by for cap jobs. Some really great sounding reverb in those Garnet amps.

[martin manning]

So, the head and the cab were two separate parts that latched together?

You just reach through the grille and pull the release, then the hood pops right open.

Pretty sure Jeff Beck is doing the same thing with a Tweed Champ. When I saw him a year or so ago there was one sitting on top of his half-stack.

[LeftyStrat]

I love the legends about Traynor amps. Don't know if they are true.

- Peter threw an amp out a third story window, and after replacing the broken tubes, the amp still worked.
- Dam Armstrong used Traynors 8x10 speaker as the basis for the Ampeg SVT cab.

[Leo_Gnardo]

I love the legends about Traynor amps. Don't know if they are true.

But back to the original subject, still not recommended to run 'em without a load. Though a couple times with my trusty old YBA1 I didn't have my speaker plugged in & "got away with it". Traynor, like Fender, has a shorting bar across the output if nothing's plugged in. The Boogie "the kid wrecked" has no such.

So folks when you make YOUR amp, you know what to do.

[LeftyStrat]

Which begs the question. I have built amps in the past that would switch in an 8 ohm resistor of appropriate wattage when nothing was plugged in.

Hiwatts actually shorted the secondaries. How long will this be good for?

[Reeltarded]

At least for a few second aries......

[Leo_Gnardo]

Which begs the question. I have built amps in the past that would switch in an 8 ohm resistor of appropriate wattage when nothing was plugged in.

OK that's good. Not a feature you'd see in a commercially built amp because it would add (horrors!) expense.

Hiwatts actually shorted the secondaries. How long will this be good for?

I'll have to have a look @ Hiwatt schemos. But that's the standard Fender output jack setup innit? Rather drive a short than open only on the chance for greater survivability of OT and tubes.

Another way to go, late 80's some amp mod guys used "stereo" output jacks, with the cathodes of the output tubes connected to the "ring" terminal. Nothing plugged in? No source of electrons to the cathodes. Plug your speaker cable in & start the current a-flowin'. I believe the CAE amps developed by Bob Bradshaw & John Suhr early 90's incorporated this feature. Maybe others too.

[martin manning]

Hiwatt, using isolated output jacks, has a set-up where using either of the two speaker jacks will un-short the output, whereas with Fender's the "main" output must be used if only one speaker cable is plugged in.

I hadn't heard of using a TRS jack to ground the power stage cathodes. For pedals thst's now the standard "on" switch. Another similar trick is Ampeg's shorted pair of pins in a multi-pin speaker connector that grounds the cathode of the driver tube.

Some guys are putting a ~200 ohm resistor across the output, which can be lower wattage (smaller and cheaper) than one that matches the speaker impedance. For a small amp a 25W resistor is pretty cheap, and can double as a built-in attenuator.

[Reeltarded]

I wish someone would issue a fatwah against Randall Smith. Anyone here qualified?

I just read.. here..

http://mesaboogie.com/news/2012/03/mesa ... all-smith/

So. Just what is this magical circuit that matches output tubes along with channel selection? Don't answer, please don't. I know the answer.

[rdjones]

I love the legends about Traynor amps. Don't know if they are true.

But back to the original subject, still not recommended to run 'em without a load. Though a couple times with my trusty old YBA1 I didn't have my speaker plugged in & "got away with it". Traynor, like Fender, has a shorting bar across the output if nothing's plugged in. The Boogie "the kid wrecked" has no such.

So folks when you make YOUR amp, you know what to do.

When the secondary is open the load is the OT primary, no reflected load from the secondary.
Much more likely flashover from flyback.
When the secondary is shorted the tube itself becomes the load.
A lot easier/cheaper to replace a tube than an OT.

Some versions of the Traynors use both a shorting speaker jack and a 180 Ohm 20W 'damper'.

rd